Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #978, 16 December 2002 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:37:35 -0700 (MST) Mead Lover's Digest #978 16 December 2002 Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Contents: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #977, 13 December 2002 (Randy Goldberg MD) RE: Mead Lover's Digest #977, 13 December 2002 ("Kemp, Alson") Re: Mead Lover's Digest #977, 13 December 2002 (Eric Drake) () Which "montrachet"? (Dick Dunn) RE: Montrachet yeast, boiling honey ("Ken Taborek") Hippocras (Greg Fischer) Re: Corks for Bottling Mead (Adam Funk) RE: 9% ABV mead ("Bill & Ramona Kuhn") Cranberry mead - Summary and what I've got brewing ("Arthur Torrey (no spa...) Book Reccomendation ("Arthur Torrey (no spam please!)") Sorbate/stabilizing ("Randy Goldberg MD") NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one. Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead`at`talisman.com. Use mead-request`at`talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests. Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is a searchable MLD archive at hubris.engin.umich.edu/Beer/Threads/Mead ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #977, 13 December 2002 From: Randy Goldberg MD Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:49:50 -0500 > How do you keep the Alcohol volume to 9%, I see all the time > references to make it to 12 to 13 %. But have never seen a Mead > to make at 9%. I know us first timers are hard to have to deal > with.. But as one of the guys on here said, we are the future > mead makers. Most mead/wine yeasts have an alcohol tolerance of anywhere from 11-18%, depending on the variety of yeast. If you want a lower-alcohol mead, you could: 1. check gravity frequently and stop the mead with potassium sorbate as soon as it gets to the ABV you want, 2. start with a low-gravity must and let it ferment to dryness, 3. try beer or ale yeasts, which frequently have lower alcohol tolerances. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #977, 13 December 2002 From: "Kemp, Alson" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:07:34 -0800 >In the other camp, I hear lots of sound >seeming reasoning why heating and sulphiting >are good ideas. When I first started making mead, I boiled AND sulfited. Boiled to kill critters and clarify mead and sulfited to reduce oxidation and, thus, improve long-term stability of the wine. Now I dump honey in water, blend with a drill stirrer, ferment and sulfite to 50ppm after fermentation. Great meads. One of SO2's main roles in winemaking is to be a long-term anti-oxidant. I don't like the oxidized sherry quality that many meadmakers (intentionally or unintentionall) wind up with. Sulfites are a safe and easy way to prevent that. Sulfites are safe, they're natural-ish (for the all-natural crowd, burn a sulfur candle, like they did in the old days!) and the wine-making trade is well and truly married to them. Wee bit of advice: Go buy a $90 0.1g scale and precisely measure your additions. 1 gram = 150ppm/gallon, so 1 gram = 30ppm/5gallons. Teaspoon schmeaspoon. >However, no experiences of meads failing >without these precautions have been posted. I've heard that it's not uncommon for no-sulfite wines to fail after 6 months to a year because of oxidative effects. > Alson also mentioned that two commercial mead > makers boil their musts not because of fears of > flora and fauna, but because it makes better mead. Ooops. Just talked to one of the mead makers last weekend: he pasteurizes to get rid of critters. The other definitely boils. When my boil/no-boil experiment ends, I'll report results. -Alson ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #977, 13 December 2002 From: Eric Drake Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:14:49 -0500 At 10:18 AM 12/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #976, 10 December 2002 >From: NetLinked`at`aol.com >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:57:38 EST > >Greetings to all: >This is my first reply to the group. I have been researcher >on the Internet the History of Mead, Making Mead. >I have purchased from the brewing supply houses >The various books (all 10 years old or older) on Making Mead. >I still need to buy all the equipment to start. But one question >I have of many..but I will start with this one. >How do you keep the Alcohol volume to 9%, I see all the time >references to make it to 12 to 13 %. But have never seen a Mead >to make at 9%. I know us first timers are hard to have to deal >with.. But as one of the guys on here said, we are the future >mead makers. >One more.. has anyone seen a book on the subject that has >been published int he last few years, If not make this would >be a good project for MLD to do.. a real do it yourself guy >with photos of all the steps and equipment to the end result. >thanks again for any help and replys >bob I try to keep my alcohol levels down by using ale yeast. Just look at the yeast charts for attenuation and pick one that ferments to about 9%. But then you might also want to take into consideration the characters the yeast imparts to the brew. Personally, I like London Ale III (1318 I think) from Wyeast for my 7% traditional. Also there is a book coming out soon (Jan-March time-frame) that I hear will be the compleat mead makers guide. I am sure other respondents will have more accurate information than I. Eric ------------------------------ Subject: From: Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:42:38 -0500 (EST) I'd like to clear Montrachet's bad name: I made 12 batches of mead so far, 2 with montrachet (raisin melomel in summer--basement around 72 degrees, and braggot in the fall--fermented around 60 degrees). All my batches are still young (2-6 months) and I only did preliminary tasting (racking and hydrometer leftovers) but I have to say that my best so far seem to be the 2 I made with Montrachet. I didn't have any listerine off-flavor. I tried braggot still cloudy and after clarification (in my fridge) and the braggot tasted better cloudy, like a white beer with accents of spice and banana, reminding me of Belgian abbey beer like Leffe (it may be hard to believe, but I swear I'm not making it up). Maybe I was just lucky, but it worked for me and I'll try this yeast again. I'll keep you posted on future tastings of the same batches. Addl. yeast comments: Champagne-type yeasts are fermenting too high for me, giving lots of alcohol and a lot of dryness. I'm going to avoid these and try lower fermenting yeasts (ICDV 47, montrachet etc...) to end up where I want without too much adjusting at the end. Still trying to identify the taste each yeast imparts to the batch. Looks like it's as important as the honey (yet people don't comment very much on this except for bad tastes) Question: I really would like to bottle this braggot with some carbonation to make an "abbey mead" close to my favorite beers. I'm afraid that if I wait until it's stable and use corn sugar the yeast will be drowned in alcohol and it won't carbonate. On the other hand, if I bottle as is (while still fermenting in secondary) I could overcarbonate and (literally) blow it. I assume you can calcualte from the gravity how much is left to ferment but I don't know the optimal "bottling point". More concretely, assuming that my yeast ferments to 14% alcohol, how much % alcohol should I have at bottling time to have the right amount of sugar left and obtain the right carbonation? (i.e., 13% would ferment for another 1% alcohol, is this sufficient to generate enough/not too much CO2?) Any other ideas to obtain the right carbonation? About heating honey: I understand boiling is probably not a good solution (I would assume the same for grapes) but it's not necessary. About pasteurizing vs. cold brewing (here is an idea for future advertising: "brewed cold"!), and at the same time about "raw" vs. filtered honey, I'd like to share the comment I got from a beekeeper (while insisting on the lack of processing). He told me "when it's 100 degrees out there in the summer, how hot do you think it is in the hive?". I think he had a point. I don't think the temperatures used for filtration are that high so is there a big difference between raw and processed honey? By the same token, is a little hotter (150-160 degrees) for a short time (20 min) removing all subtleness of the taste? I'm no expert but from here it doesn't sound that bad. I think the debate can go on forever and it's kind of a preference after all. While I'm on a roll, I'd like to add one comment on the titration: from what I read before, trying to titrate honey or mead is like trying to titrate a buffer solution. The precise purpose of a buffer solution is to stay at the same pH when you add acids or bases. In a sense, it's good. It makes one's batch more stable while fermenting. On the other hand, it makes checking acidity useful only when the pH is really off (enough imbalance to overwhelm the buffering capacity), and either way measuring pH with a simple method like pH paper more relevant than titrating. Well, there are my thoughts anyway. Please shed some light if you think otherwise. Also , thanks in advance to anyone answering my carbonation question. Best, Vince Galet ------------------------------ Subject: Which "montrachet"? From: rcd`at`talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:34:18 -0700 (MST) Aside from differing expectations and differing amounts of patience with aging a mead, the discussion of Montrachet so far omits an important point: WHOSE "montrachet" are you using? Yeast mutate over time and reculturing, so after a while montrachet will be different from one vendor to another. Maybe the folks who have had good or bad luck could chime in again with the particular vendor of the yeast they were talking about? I've noted the "Listerine" factor (call it "Lf") in varying amounts in meads over the years, and although I've not done careful experiments I've got enough data points to have drawn a couple of conclusions: * Different brands of what is supposedly the same "name" of yeast produce Lf in very different amounts. * The same yeast at different temperatures produces Lf to differing extents. I think that with the right yeast and fermentation temperature kept below 75F, Lf just isn't a problem. I tend to get preachy about one point: Your mead should be drinkable at the time it's ready to bottle, and if it isn't, you've got a problem in your meadmaking. Oh, it may have some "rough edges" when it's young, and there might be a little Lf, but there shouldn't be much. This business of saying that a mead has to age for a year or more before it will be drink- able...I think we've used it as an excuse to avoid hunting down some of the problems we've had over the years. Plus, if you've got serious Lf in your mead when it's young, yes, it will age out but it will always be there. Your mead will never be quite as good as it could have been early on. - --- Dick Dunn rcd`at`talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Montrachet yeast, boiling honey From: "Ken Taborek" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 20:16:17 -0500 > From: "phil" > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:35:46 -0800 [snipped] > I did not even ask about montrachet yeast and an interesting > conversation has begun. It seems that people who like it do so because > it is dependable, and others don't like the flavor profile. > People with experience and opinions with montrachet yeast-lets further > the depth of this discussion. I like montrachet yeast because it is dependable, and I have never detected the alleged "Listerine" flavor in a mead or a wine made with montrachet, at any stage of the process. (My use of the term alleged is not meant to refute that others have experienced this, but simply that I have no first hand evidence that this flavor occurs in meads fermented with montrachet yeast) Some young meads do exhibit a wintergreen nose, and that might be what some are calling Listerine, since that product does come in various mint flavors, but I have detected this wintergreen nose in meads made with many different kinds of yeast, and so it is not a characteristic that can be assigned to montrachet yeast alone. [regarding using sulphites] > However, no experiences of meads failing without these precautions have > been posted. Thus, the risk may be only theoretical, having no value > but to make the mead maker feel safer. Sulphites have a value above that of protecting the must/mead from unwanted organisms. Sulphites protect against oxidation, against color loss, and can extend the shelf life. > Ken said he switched from > boiling to sulphating and has noticed no differences in aromatics. One slight correction, I said that I've switched from heat pasteurizing to sulphiting. I've never made a mead using the boil method of sterilizing the must, but I suspect that you can make a fine mead using that process. I would still sulphite that mead when racking and bottling it. :) - -- Cheers, Ken ------------------------------ Subject: Hippocras From: Greg Fischer Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:23:23 -0600 >From The Encyclopedia Of Gastronomy 1946 here is an interesting tid bit: Hippocras - of the most popular forms of aromatized and spiced wine during the Middle Ages and even long after, There is every reason to believe that the basis of Hippocras was sour or pricked wine, of which there must have been an embarrassingly large quantity at the time when wine was kept on ullage, in casks, or in ill stoppered bottles, before the use of cork stoppers. Such wine being heavily sweetened with honey and flavored with herbs and spices was then filtered through a woollen bag, known as Hippocrates sleeve, hense the name Hippocras, often written Ipoctas or Ypocras. Always Ask For Mead Greg Fischer Wild Blossom Meadery - Chicago ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Corks for Bottling Mead From: Adam Funk Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:32:07 +0000 > From: "Maurice St. aude" > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:58:13 -0500 ... > So what choice do I make? Do I stick to natural cork with a failure > rate of aprrox. 5% per batch, or do I take my chances with one of the > modern corks or cork alternatives? Any help or thought on this matter > would be appreciated. I've had problems with the outside end of the corks getting mouldy in my damp cellar (I don't think it's affected the contents yet, but it might) and I find preparing and inserting corks a nuisance. So I've switched to beer bottles and crown caps for everything -- beer, mead and even wine. They're easy to seal (get a good double-lever capper), I don't have to worry about cork problems and I have a variety of sizes (from 250 to 650 ml). As for the aesthetics of wine and still mead, I serve it from a carafe (a good idea anyway, since I usually have some sediment). - -- Adam ------------------------------ Subject: RE: 9% ABV mead From: "Bill & Ramona Kuhn" Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:36:07 -0700 In digest #977, bob asked... > How do you keep the Alcohol volume to 9%, I see all the time > references to make it to 12 to 13 %. But have never seen a Mead > to make at 9%. Just use about 9 lbs. of honey for a 5 gallon batch and check your gravity. You want to be at 1.070. Depending on the sweetness of the honey, this should get you close to 9%. If you are using fruit, you need to take the sugar content of the fruit into account. You can search the MLD archives for a good post on how to do that, or you can just guess. 2 lbs./gal of a fairly sweet fruit like peaches will raise the potential alcohol about 1%. Most yeasts will quickly ferment this mead to dead dry, if you want it sweet, wait until it stops working, then add potassium sorbate (sorbistax) and a little more honey. 1 lb in 5 gallons will raise the gravity to about 1.010, which is lightly sweet. > I know us first timers are hard to have to deal with.. But as > one of the guys on here said, we are the future mead makers. > One more.. has anyone seen a book on the subject that has > been published int he last few years, If not make this would > be a good project for MLD to do.. a real do it yourself guy > with photos of all the steps and equipment to the end result. > thanks again for any help and replys We've all been there, stressing over that first batch. But really, you don't need a book, and it's easier than you think. Just get your equipment, either from your local homebrew shop or from one of the online places. There are many debates over heat, but it might be a good idea to pasteurize your first batch (I don't at all anymore, I just use 1/4 t of sodium bisulfite per 5 gallons). A starter will make it happen faster, but I don't do that anymore either. I have made more than 20 meads since I started 2 years ago, and they all have been at least good. I started out being so careful, now I just sanitize the equipment, dump in the ingredients (I put the fruit in a fine mesh nylon sparging bag so there is no mess when racking, and I always use yeast nutrient), sprinkle the yeast on top, stir it in a little later, and rack after a couple of weeks. If I don't like it when it is 6 months old, I just mess with it until I do...Add acid to make it more tart, stabilize and sweeten if I think it's too dry. And keep good records so you can replicate what you like! If you have a specific question, feel free to e-mail me off-list and I will do what I can to answer. But you will never know anything about making mead until you start making it! Good brewing, and cheers, I think I'll crack a blueberry/strawberry mel and make some mead... Bill ------------------------------ Subject: Cranberry mead - Summary and what I've got brewing From: "Arthur Torrey (no spam please!)" Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:49:30 -0500 First I would like to thank all of the folks that responded to my request for recipes for Whole Berry based Cranberry Mead. I ended up with about 8 different recipes, all of which sounded pretty good. However there was a great deal of divergence of opinion about just what should go into the brew pot (not all that suprising). Cranberry ammounts for a 5 gallon batch ranged from 1.75 lbs to 12 lbs, and I got a whole bunch of different additional ingredients, including (from different recipes) Lipton tea, apple cider, oranges, spices, etc. Given the wide range of ideas, I ended up creating my own recipe using the responses as a base and trying to do a bit of an average. The following is what I just got through putting in the primary... 1/4 tsp. Sodium Metabisulfate 2.5 tsp. Yeast Nutrient 1 Tbl. Pollen 1 Tbl. Freeze Dried Royal Jelly 1 Tbl. Propolis 1/4 tsp. Pectic Enzyme 10 12 oz. Bags (7.5 lbs) Whole Cranberries ~15 lbs. Wildflower honey (fairly dark fall 2001 honey from my own hive) The cranberries were frozen and chopped, which I found took some experimenting to find a good way to do. Putting them in the blender was a mixed bag, some got chopped really fine, but mostly I ended up with a wall of frozen cranberry slush around the edge of the jar and a bunch of partly skinned cranberry marbles rattling around in the middle. I then tried the chopper blade in a food processor, which mostly just pushed the frozen berries around, without doing much chopping on them. Finally I tried using the slicer disk in the food processor, and found this worked pretty well. I would fill the feed tube with frozen berries, and use the pusher to slowly push them through. This made fairly coarse chips and slices with a minimal effort and fairly fast, although it sounded terrible (about like a garbage disposal eating a rock...) I haven't pitched yeast yet since I'm waiting for the sulfites to go away, but I'm planning to use White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast (WLP720) You may also notice the Pollen, Royal Jelly, and Propolis - I put this in all the meads that I brew, as I think it gets back to the more ancient mead making methods where one used an entire hive (angry bees and all) without wasting the bees. This is something I got as a suggestion from the book "Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers; the secrets of ancient fermentation" by Stephen Harrod Buhner (ISBN 0-937381-66-7) (Published by Sirus Books / Brewers Publications) Despite the title, this book contains several good traditional and herbal mead recipes. If you want to do herbal brewing, I highly reccomend this book. ART ------------------------------ Subject: Book Reccomendation From: "Arthur Torrey (no spam please!)" Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:13:31 -0500 Bob was asking about book reccomendations. One that I picked up a few months ago which I find very useful is "The Alaskan Bootlegger's Bible" by Leon W. Kania, ISBN 0-9674524-0-6. This is a book that covers a lot of territory, including meads, wines, beers and some other oddities you might or might not feel inclined to drink... It doesn't take itself to seriously, and tends to focus more on the practical than on the ultimate theoretical perfect approach. The author's opinion is that while knowing all the modern yeast chemistry and other such things is good, NOT knowing it didn't keep our ancestors from making some pretty good brews. His book focuses on practical 'poor boy' methods that might make a modern scientific brewer cringe, but which work... It has a fair bit of information on making your own equipment, including (for educational purposes only, the book emphasizes often that it is a 'how to, not a must do book) plans for several stills (It claims to have gotten some of the plans from middle eastern oil feed moonshiners, where you really can loose your head over booze...) more practical and legal instructions cover plans for cappers, fermenters and locks, making your own malts, etc. You might or might not want to make the recipes, but they do provide a good starting point for making your own. If all else fails, this book will leave you rolling on the floor in places with its tales of some of the (mis)adventures and colorful characters the author has encountered in his many years of brewing. ------------------------------ Subject: Sorbate/stabilizing From: "Randy Goldberg MD" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:39:33 -0500 Do you add potassium sorbate to stabilize and resweeten when you rack into secondary, or just before bottling? Randy **************************************************** Randall Cook of Northpass (soon to be "of Sudentur") (formerly Avraham haRofeh) (mka Randy Goldberg MD) RandomTag: There are no answers; at best a few possibly good guesses. ------------------------------ End of Mead Lover's Digest #978 *******************************