From postmaster at longs.lance.colostate.edu Wed May 18 03:27:14 1994 Received: from longs.lance.colostate.edu by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA28799 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at hendrix.itn.med.umich.edu); Wed, 18 May 94 03:27:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon at localhost) by longs.lance.colostate.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5a (LANCE 1.01)) id AAA29719 for reallambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu; Wed, 18 May 1994 00:30:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199405180630.AAA29719 at longs.lance.colostate.edu> Reply-To: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu (postings only - do not send subscription requests here) Errors-To: lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu From: lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here) To: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu Subject: Lambic Digest #347 (May 18, 1994) Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 00:30:07 -0600 Lambic Digest #347 Wed 18 May 1994 Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles) Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator Contents: turbid mashing (ROB THOMAS) LaChouffe yeast (Ed Hitchcock) Wyeast Weistephan Wheat Yeast.. ("McGaughey, Nial") Mysteries (C.R. Saikley) Oats & Recipe Request (Mark Stickler) Send article submissions only to: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to: lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to: netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the subject or body of your message (to netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 10:23:47 +0200 From: thomasr at ezrz1.vmsmail.ethz.ch (ROB THOMAS) Subject: turbid mashing Hello all, I just saw Mike's ASCII plan for the turbid mash. First a question, what does everyone understand by taking off the turbid mash? Is this like a decoction (ie remove the thickest part), or the opposite, (remove the thinnest part) or neither (ie stir first then remove some). Now the comments. I'm working without the paper in front of me, but van Oevelen (sp?) gives a very short description of the mash process. Though it has even less details than Mike's ASCII drawing, it suggests a similar (IMHO strange) process. The grains are step mashed, but the liquor is removed to a mash copper prior to adding more hot water. The mash copper is insulated. What I assume is happening is that first the proteins are roughly chopped up and some soluble starches and enzymes are dissolved. This lot is then removed. The second addition of hot water then starts the saccharification of the remaining grains. (with an unspecified balance of amylases since some have been drained off). This sugar rich and enzyme rich solution is pumped to join the previous decoction, where proteolysis and sacch' continues. The other steps of the decoction dissolve starches and these hot solutions when added to the other decocts inactivate the alpha amylase (is that the one? I mean the one that chops up the starches into small sugars). Finally, adding the lot back to the grains dissolved more starches, and creats the filter. The upshot of this? Selective removal of the amylase that breaks starch up smallest, as well as removing most of the enzymes from the grains, allows dissolution of the starches (which takes a while) but slows their breakdown (usually fast). Hence a wort high in starches and dextrins. Needless to say, this may be complete fantasy on my part, but it amuses me to think about it. I might even try it if I can get some more data (particularly how much water to add at each step). Rob. p.s. my lambic is starting to do strange things. I'll give it a couple more weeks and post a summary so far. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 10:36:24 -0300 From: Ed Hitchcock Subject: LaChouffe yeast It would appear that the yeast I grabbed from the LaChouffe bottle is not viable after all. By its appearance I would have guessed it was alive, it had that stick-together look, rather than the fluffy-floaty look that pasturized bottles (eg Celis White) have. Oh well. I'll leave the culture for a few more days to make sure it just wasn't severely depleated. I have heard good things about the LaChouffe yeast, has anyone else had problems culturing it? ____________ Ed Hitchcock ech at ac.dal.ca | Oxymoron: Draft beer in bottles. | Anatomy & Neurobiology | Pleonasm: Draft beer on tap. | Dalhousie University, Halifax |___________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 May 94 08:43:00 PDT From: "McGaughey, Nial" Subject: Wyeast Weistephan Wheat Yeast.. Hi. I was wondering If anybody has used this yeast to make a passable beer type other than a hefeweizen. (the strain used is pure delbrukii) Does this yeast simply enhance/work well with wheat, or can it do well with just barley? TIA.. Nial McGaughey Wall Data Product Development ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 May 94 10:06:52 PDT From: zeiss!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) Subject: Mysteries Mike asks if anyone has seen a copy of the book the "Mysteries of Gueuze". Neat book. Coffee table quality. Lot's of full color photos that I've never seen elsewhere. Definitely worth getting if you're fanatical, even if you don't speak Flemish. The only copy I've seen belongs to a friend who lives near Antwerp. The Standaard Boekhandel chain doesn't carry it, nor does the Brewer's Museum in the Grand Place. Quite a prize if you can find it. CR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 May 94 15:21:27 EDT From: Mark Stickler Subject: Oats & Recipe Request If I'm using raw oats as part of the grain bill should I be cooking them prior to putting them in the mash? If so, how? Boil the Oats separately prior to adding them to the mash? If so, for how long, what ratio of water to Oats, should they be drained, if they don't absorb all of the water, before adding to the mash? Any help will be appreciated! Also, without sounding too demanding, I still haven't heard any suggestions on Goudenband or Rodenbach recipes. While they're not Lambic's, I don't think there is any other place where I could hope to find such recipe's besides Rajotte. Any help, again, will be appreciated. TIA. Direct e-mail is: mstickler at lvh.com ------------------------------ End of Lambic Digest ************************ -------