From postmaster at longs.lance.colostate.edu Sun Mar 20 03:19:10 1994 Received: from longs.lance.colostate.edu by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA24342 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at hendrix.itn.med.umich.edu); Sun, 20 Mar 94 03:19:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (daemon at localhost) by longs.lance.colostate.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5a (LANCE 1.01)) id AAA01560 for reallambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu; Sun, 20 Mar 1994 00:30:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199403200730.AAA01560 at longs.lance.colostate.edu> Reply-To: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu (postings only - do not send subscription requests here) Errors-To: lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu From: lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here) To: reallambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu (subscriber distribution list) Subject: Lambic Digest #305 (March 20, 1994) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 00:30:08 -0700 Lambic Digest #305 Sun 20 March 1994 Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles) Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator Contents: Lindemans ("Phillip R. Seitz") yeast culture (Alex Crowe) Send article submissions only to: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to: lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to: netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the subject or body of your message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 11:18:14 -0400 From: "Phillip R. Seitz" Subject: Lindemans Martin Lodahl writes: >prefer. I've never tasted a European-market Lindeman's (I just never >seemed to be anywhere that had them without seeing something I'd >rather try instead), but always suspected that the very mild >products we were getting here were toned down at the behest of the >importer, to make them more accessible to the notoriously bland >American palates. If so, Charlie Finkel apparently believes we've Nah, it's the same stuff over there, too. Plus a gueuze that to me is redolent of banana, and a faro that's pretty sweet and a lot like Belle-Vue. >grown up. Last week I had several opportunities to taste a new >product in the final stages of label approval, expected to be on sale >within 90 days, and friends, I'm already a believer. Called "Cuvee >Rene' Grand Cru Gueuze-Lambic," it's clearly the genuine article, I've never seen this over there, but I'm ready and waiting! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 14:22:40 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Crowe Subject: yeast culture In answer to Teddy Winstead's query about Saccharomyces culture, my experience with the beasties indicates that liquid cultures, if allowed to stand in spent media will maintain a high level of viability for only a week or so. On agar plates or slants they last longer (why I can't say) more like three months, provided they don't dry out. The best way to save your cultures is by freezing them in growth media that has been brought up to 10% glycerol. I've seen glycerol available at some of the wine/homebrew supply shops. You'll have to sterilize it first, as a 50% solution then dilute it 1/5 in the yeast culture and freeze. Such cultures are viable for a year or so. Although extreme low temperature freezers will inprove on this, not everybody keeps one handy. Another method would be to sterilize some silica gel then mix in a loop or two of a yeast culture picked off of an agar plate. This can be frozen for years and still yield viable bugs. SInce you are at a university, a trip to the microbiology labs is well worthwhile. It is easy to talk people into letting you use the autoclaves for sterilizing any materials you choose. Especially when you offer some homebrew in the exchange. Homebrewing is taking off like wildfire at my university and you may find fellow enthusiasts in the Bio dept. (or even create some). They may also give you a few of the tubes and vials that are designed for freezing down cell lines. I wish to add some speculation to the frothy discussion about that ill fated Liefman's culture. It is possible that in skimming the froth early in the ferment you have biased your selection for the faster growing Saccharomyces. I have read that Brettanomyces are slower growers and as such would be overgrown in the early stages of fermentation. This would also apply to the Lactobacilli because they are anaerobes (as already mentioned) and their population would probably bloom after the oxygen levels decrease and true fermentation begins. I'm unfamiliar with the growth habits of these bugs but it is also possible that a good cross section of the wildlife in any lambic is not available in the bottle. If any are bottom fermenters they may not be bottled at all. (although bacteria, at least, have a wonderful capacity to be everywhere at once). Trub samples certainly sound like a good way to get the gamut of the local organisms. As for scraping the ceiling at the brewery.... aren't you guys getting a little carried away? For the microbiologists in the group, is there anyone who knows how to make nutrient plates that select against non fermenting organisms? I've heard that there is a way to do this. Regardless, tonight I will be scouring the city for those fabled lambic toting bodegas in an effort to get a few cultures of my own going and maybe a buzz. Does anyone know of any brewpubs in the New York tristate area that make their own lambic ? Alex ------------------------------ End of Lambic Digest ************************ -------