Subject: Digest for the period 8/28/2007 - 8/29/2007 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:01:10 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Verbiage (Bev D. Blackwood II) 2. Re: More verbage grouses (Mike Dixon) 3. RE: aroma vs bouquet (Brian Lundeen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bev D. Blackwood II Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:39:17 -0500 Subject: Verbiage Please let's NOT adopt the wine verbiage. Who cares where the barley was grown as long as it's the right variety? (Terroir) "This seems to be a Southern Canadian pale malt barley, I'm guessing Harrington, with hints of North Dakota, but with a munich roast." Forgve the hyperbole, but let's stick to simple terms... There's no reason to assume beer drinkers need the bloated verbiage of oenophiles. It's a serious case of semantics and not worth a lot of debate, in my opinon. (and it's best if it's spelled right in the first place...) -BDB2 Bev D. Blackwood II http://www.bdb2.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:36:36 -0400 Subject: Re: More verbage grouses Jon Tobey wrote: > Can we please change "aroma" on the scoring sheet to the correct term "bouquet"? It is well established in wine tasting that aroma is the smell of the grape, while bouquet is the overall fragrance including terroir, fermentation, cooperage, etc. Certainly in beer where we have the malt, hops, yeast, fermentation and other factors all combining, we should be using the more inclusive term. > > Jon - It's beer and I'm from the South, so let's just call it "smell". Round here a "bouquet" is what you give to SWMBO so you can do something or to make up for something you have already done. We could call it "nose", but that's the critter sitting on the end of your face provided you haven't had some twist of fate that either did not put it there in the first place or removed it. When I check the definition (not specifically in a wino sense) of bouquet, I find it means flowers or the fragrance of a wine or liqueur. When I check "aroma" the first thing I see is: "A quality that can be perceived by the olfactory sense..." Aroma seems like a good term to me. If a judge wants to use the word bouquet or nose on a sheet, there would be no problems with that at all. I have no way of knowing if your post was in jest, it did not seem so, but in case you could not tell, mine was...;) Cheers, Mike Dixon Wake Forest, NC BJCP National ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Lundeen Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:34:13 -0500 Subject: RE: aroma vs bouquet > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Jon Tobey Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:26:59 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: More verbage grouses > > > Can we please change "aroma" on the scoring sheet to the > correct term "bouquet"? It is well established in wine > tasting that aroma is the smell of the grape, while bouquet > is the overall fragrance including terroir, fermentation, > cooperage, etc. Certainly in beer where we have the malt, > hops, yeast, fermentation and other factors all combining, we > should be using the more inclusive term. > > I'm afraid I must disagree. Aroma should more correctly be interpreted as the smell of the principal ingredients. In other words, it is young, undeveloped smells. In the case of wine, that is simply the grape, or to be more encompassing, the smell of the fruit used to make the wine. Bouquet comes from chemical reactions occuring during aging. Most beers do not have the opportunity to develop bouquet. They are still the smells produced by the principal ingredients, malt, hops and yeast going through fermentation. That young beer is much more complex than young wine merely demonstrates why brewing is a much more gratifying hobby in the short term than winemaking. Bouquet should only be applied to aged beer smells. Sniff a 10 year old Chimay Grande Reserve next to one you have just purchased at your favorite vendor. That will be bouquet vs aroma. Cheers Brian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Important Subscriber Information ***** To post a message to JudgeNet, send it to judge`at`synchro.com. Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments. Make sure you use a meaningful subject. Quote only as much material as is needed for context. To manage your subscription, go to http://synchro.com/judge/subscriptions.html or send an email to judge-request`at`synchro.com with the subject: help judge. JudgeNet is also available as an NNTP newsgroup, go to news://news.synchro.com/synchro.judge