Subject: Digest for the period 5/10/2006 - 5/11/2006 Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 01:04:06 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. RE: BJCP number (David Houseman) 2. The State of the Nationals - 2006 (Formanek, Joe) 3. WHOA!! Regional Results (gornicwm`at`earthlink.net) 4. Re: BJCP number (Ed Westemeier) 5. re: Regional results (Annie Johnson) 6. Appropriateness of AHA posts? (Steve) 7. Delinquent Competition Organizer Reports (David Houseman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 07:32:54 -0400 Subject: RE: BJCP number Linda, You are correct that at some point in the process each examinee is assigned a number and you are entered into the BJCP database. I looked to see if this was currently true for you, and would provide it, but at this point you have yet to be assigned a number. Check back with me or the IT_Director directly in early June and we'll see if the process has moved that far. Better to do this off-line from the forum than to broadcast it to the judging world :-)) David Houseman BJCP Competition Director ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Formanek, Joe Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 08:40:34 -0500 Subject: The State of the Nationals - 2006 All, First off, let me state that this is certainly not a knock against a fantastic brewer and AHA/BJCP supporter like Jamil. He is truly one of the driving forces in the hobby, and plays strictly by the rules of the game. What I see here is an increasing level of frustration (as seen through Bill's post), and you have a situation where the following quote can be made: "Every club plays under the same rules. We have no unfair advantage except close to a hundred really great brewers. It's not like it was a fluke. We have consistently taken the Homebrew Club of the Year for 5 years in a row. We are just *really* good brewers." Dion, I do find this statement, while a bit egotistical, undoubtedly true. Data backs you up. Congratulations for your feat. OK, what does this tell us?? That there is a club (QUAFF) that can call upon 100 *really great* brewers to enter a competition in competition against other clubs where you might have a *total* membership of 50 or so -if you're lucky!!! The large club then can call upon their brewers to enter hundreds of beers across numerous regions to deliver points at levels unheard of just a few years back. Kevin's great post below really validates this idea. Meanwhile, other clubs with smaller memberships are left at a distinct disadvantage and simply cannot compete. What happen?? Apathy in these smaller clubs towards the Nats. It gets to be a foregone conclusion that QUAFF will do it again. Why try?? Why enter?? I know of a number of VERY good brewers that have come to this conclusion. I remember back in 1999 - early in the Spring before the 1st round, some of the UKG members got together thinking that, perhaps, we could win the Homebrew Club of the Year title! What an aspiration!! No real plans, just enter beers and see how we would do. We were (and are) a smaller club, but he had (and have) some pretty good brewers and thought we'd give it a try. Sure enough, we were able to do it, with ~80 pts, tied with the OBC. Back then, this seemed like an incredible amount of points! If we did the same thing now, this would be a blip on the list. Smaller clubs can no longer aspire to greatness when it comes to the Nationals. I do know that there is a growing apathy towards the competition that in the long run can only harm the hobby and organization. =20 There is an unfortunate disparity in the Nats as the rules are currently written. Perhaps we should take a cue from High School Sports Associations (as well as the BA with the GABF!) and have different levels according to club size? Top large club and top small club? Some changes need to be done to address this issue. On a different note, Kevin P, on a personal level, thank you very much for your kind words. Kevin K and Jamil - A fellow UKG member( a fantastic judge) and I had the great pleasure and honor to judge the Bock category at the GL region. I have to say that overall this was the best category that I have ever experienced in my 10 years of judging! ALL 3 of the top beers deserved 1sts, and a number of those that didn't place also deserved to do so. Good job!! Your beers were absolutely fabulous and should do quite well in the 2nd round. Cheers - and best of luck to all in the 2nd round! Joe Formanek UKG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 22:38:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Regional Results I'm not going to get into the ethics of which region Jamil (or anyone else) enters, but by entering so many beers, he did manage to take almost 1/4 of the award places in the Great Lakes region. His club may only get a maximum of 12 point per category, but by entering (and winning) in another region than his home club, he does effectively block other clubs from getting points for placing in that region. Look at it this way (forgive me if my numbers are not exact, but you will get the idea): There are 10 regions to enter beers. 26 categories, three places in each category (1st, 2nd, and 3rd). That is 78 awards for each region, 780 awards total for the first round. If Jamil entered in his own region, he would be in competition with his own club, and would likely beat out some of his fellow members, and place in his own region. The maximum number of awards that QUAFF could get in this circumstance is 78. By allowing him to enter beers in another region, his club can still take 78 awards in his own region, while he has the opportunity to take 78 more awards for his club in another region. This is not only about getting points for Homebrew Club of the Year, it is also about preventing other clubs from getting points. QUAFF has the opportunity to monopolize 156 awards (20% of the total), while other clubs only have 78 awards (10% of the total) to work with. And if he is in another region winning with his beers, the other clubs have less of a chance to win. He obviously brews good beers, and I don't fault him for being a better brewer than others, but I do see this as a loophole that allows QUAFF and unfair advantage in points for Homebrew Club of the Year. I must not have a big enough competitive spirit, and I am happy to rest on my laurels. In our club, we have a Homebrewer of the Year competition, and I won this award around 4 years ago. Since then, I have run the competition, and felt no need to compete, even though the rest of the club would have no problem with it. I brew great beer, I won the award once, and could likely win it again. I figure that it is time to let other members win, and have their moment in the spotlight. Jamil won the Ninkasa award (NHC Homebrewer of the Year) in 2004, and if he wants to continue to compete and try to win again, more power to him. Jamil is probably more competitive than I am, and that is alright by me. I just wish it would not skew the possible point accumulation for the Homebrew Club of the Year in the process. It would probably be too much to ask to have the First Round site directors and judge coordinators not compete the years they are running the competition; we would probably have much less volunteers to run the competition. There should be a way to close this loophole, though. By the way, Jamil--you did beat me out in the Bock category this year in the Great Lakes first round (grrr!). Don't worry . . . . I'll be Bock! ;-) Kevin Kutskill Certified BJCP ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gornicwm`at`earthlink.net Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:40:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: WHOA!! Regional Results Please. Angry over ribbons??? Its all in good fun!!! This is NOT about Jamil!!! It just seems that the "regional system" was worked over in this case to the benefit of his club and to the detriment of clubs in our region and I would feel this way even if Jamil/QUAFF placed one beer (instead of fourteen). Contrary to what everyone may be thinking, I certainly am not the only AHA member that feels this way. Personally, I think that I am most irritated that a brewer that did not belong to our region took recognition from our region. Sore loser? Please!! People actually get mad over these things?? Get a life!!! Regarding my use of the term "weakend", I DID NOT say "region". I said, "system". If many people are this irritated, than the system doesn't work. This falls on the AHA to make it better. I am looking for solutions, folks --not pointless, ego driven banter. I urge the regional planners to thoughtfully consider these concerns and plan around them next year. THAT'S ALL!!! This is all I am going to say about it. I can't change the way I feel and I've wasted far too much time on it. Still, I think the GL Region got rooked this year. If any good can be had from all of this, I guess that we are all pretty passionate about what the AHA competition represents to their regions. Always a good thing, in my opinion. I also want to thank everyone for the Jamil/QUAFF history lesson -- Interesting. Impressive, but not neccesary. Bill Gornicki CRAFT Homebrew Club Michigan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Westemeier Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 11:45:57 -0400 Subject: Re: BJCP number All this should have been explained at the exam, but the stress of the day sometimes causes an inadvertent memory dump when it's over. ;-) In any case, you normally get your BJCP number with your RTP (the exam scores and feedback report). In the interim, your name on an organizer's report will be enough to get your points recorded. And, AFAIK, the convention is to mark yourself Recognized on scoresheets for now, under the assumption that you passed the exam (the majority do). If it turns out you had a bad exam day, then you'll be calling yourself Apprentice until you retake it, but why not think positive in the meantime? Ed Westemeier BJCP Communication Director communication_director`at`bjcp.org > is there a way to get my number so I can use it on > judging forms, even though it might be weeks (or months) before I > get my > score back? (My understanding, which I hope is correct, is that I > get a > number and can call myself Apprentice no matter what, right?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Annie Johnson Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: re: Regional results Hello Bill, I will (try) and keep it brief. I don't believe Organizers have the choice of which region their beers go to be judged. They just know they can't be within their own. Don't the regions have to accept out of region brewers? Maybe you weren't in on the vote? I feel your anger is misplaced as Jamil and Quaff really didn't break any rules or do anything wrong. Jamil just placed, and placed a lot. He always does! Jamil brews excellent beer. I do wonder if it would be easier for you to accept his/Quaff's accomplishments if they had been sent to some other region instead... I do feel your post is out of line. We should be celebrating all the entrants/winners and non-placers alike. This is a big competition! In my OP there is a bigger issue with the NHC. Its sheer volume of entries and unique style of judging are what need addressing. My only suggestion is to perhaps change it to how the MCAB is run with its qualifying competitions. Pick competitions throughout the brewing year and make those qualifiers for the NHC. Although, I'm not sure what result this could have on the AHA's coffers. As a judge and home brewer, I salute Jamil's wins and AHA/NHC accomplishments as they are justly deserved. I also salute all who entered. On a personal note, I have also learned that sour grapes make crummy wine. /.02 Annie Johnson ESB - East Sacramento Brewers "If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right.” Peter, Reggae on the River Road Crew --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 20:57:13 -0400 Subject: Appropriateness of AHA posts? Hi All, What is an appropriate posting to this forum? What do people think about all of the recent AHA-related posts on Judgenet? Up until a few months ago, I don't recall any. But recently there have been postings about AHA-membership rallys, AHA elections, AHA conference registrations, rooms at the AHA conference, and now discussions about the AHA National Comp (this last one is really about the mechanisms and rules of the competition, not about judging). Do any of these belong here? My feeling is no - they have nothing to do with beer judging and much to do with promotion of the AHA. The AHA has its own membership database that it can use to communicate with its members and I am sure that they are capable of setting up their own membership forum like HBD or JudgeNet. I'd be interested in others opinions. BTW, Chuck, are there guidelines about what is an acceptable post to this forum? Steve Stroud BJCP judge and AHA member ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 21:56:26 -0400 Subject: Delinquent Competition Organizer Reports I've been unable to reach all of the organizers identified below who have delinquent competition organizer reports. If you judged at one of these competitions, please contact the organizer to get the organizer report filed or else there will be no judging, steward or staff credits applied. New competitions will not be sanctioned for clubs or organizers with outstanding reports. We're down to only one missing report for 2005 but the 2006 delinquency rate seems to be going back up. David Houseman BJCP Competition Director Comp Date ID Name Location Organizer Org Phone Org Email 04/15/2006 200079 Beer Summit Homebrewers Competition Boston, MA Tom Briggs (978) 490-6640 briggs802`at`yahoo.com 04/01/2006 200086 ALES Homebrew Open -- AHA NHC Qualifier Competition Regina, SK Dean Holroyd (306) 584-0976 competition`at`alesclub.com 03/31/2006 101902 Samuel Adams Holiday Homebrew Competition Boston, MA Robert Driscoll (617) 368-5000 rob.driscoll`at`bostonbeer.com 03/25/2006 200010 16th Annual Hudson Valley Homebrew Competition Hyde Park, NY Al Alexsa (845) 255-8685 aalexsa`at`aol.com 03/04/2006 200055 Peach State Brew Off 2006 Atlanta, GA Young Martin (770) 603-9575 coverthops`at`yahoo.com 02/18/2006 101905 Febfest 2006 Homebrew Competition Libertyville, IL Eric Lindquist (847) 949-8194 brewbird1`at`yahoo.com 02/18/2006 200068 Toronado BW Festival San Francisco, CA Russ Wigglesworth (707) 338-0092 russwig`at`aol.com 02/11/2006 101910 Beerfest Mirboo North, Victoria AU Haig Jason +61 423 827-972 haig`at`melbpc.org.au 02/11/2006 200012 Best Florida Beer Championship Pro Brewer Competition Tampa, FL Bob Sylvester (813) 920-9649 baccsylvester`at`earthlink.net 01/21/2006 101843 International Mead Fest Home Mead Cptn Boulder, CO Neil McCormick (407) 625-7633 nmccormick`at`earthlink.net 08/20/2005 101859 Benton/Franklin Fair Homebrew Competition Kennewick, WA Dan Doescher (509) 582-7024 DantheDoorman`at`charter.net 09/18/2004 101647 Dearborn Oktoberfest Homebrewing Competition Dearborn, MI Scott Smith (313) 730-2174 brewer48124`at`wowway.com 08/29/2004 101603 Brewing in the Hills Waverly, NY Tom Koons (607) 425-1543 TKoons`at`shepardhills.com 08/21/2004 101648 Nebraska State Fair Lincoln, NE frank sobetski (402) 593-9171 LSOBETSKI`at`msn.com 07/16/2004 101604 2004 Los Angeles County Fair Pomona, CA Bruce Brode (310) 558-8458 deacon`at`quickconnect.net 07/10/2004 101563 Mother Lode Fair Homebrew Competition Columbia, CA Phil Reiss (209) 536-9446 philreis`at`sonnet.com 05/20/2004 101543 AHA Club-Only Extract Brews Memphis, TN Terrence Garland (901) 757-0847 terrence.garland`at`autozone.com 11/16/2003 101463 AZ Mead Cup Buckeye, AZ Gregory Naff (623) 386-0656 gregory.naff`at`starband.net 11/08/2003 101466 California State Homebrew Competition San Francisco, CA Dave Suurballe 10/11/2003 101310 KCRF Home Brew Competition Bonner Springs, KS Roger Clements (816) 531-6977 sales`at`kcrenfest.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Important Subscriber Information ***** To post a message to JudgeNet, send it to judge`at`synchro.com. 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