Subject: Digest for the period 5/5/2005 - 5/6/2005 Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 01:02:51 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Scoresheetus Horribilis (bpitner`at`mindspring.com) 2. Re: Guinness here there and eveywhere (dave sapsis) 3. Re: Guinness and American lager (David Houseman) 4. Re: Guinness and American lager (lazyeye) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bpitner`at`mindspring.com Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 22:14:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Scoresheetus Horribilis Hi Bev As a recovering organizer, I agree with all your points: the 2 judges per table, the (lack of) hospitality suites, (not) judging at home, etc. Well said. I also of course agree that the 2 judge sheets in question are unacceptable regardless of circumstances. One additional trend I see here in NC comps is that 50% of beers are entered by only 10-20% of the participating entrants. This is likely due to regional brewer/club of the year competitions. Thankfully these same brewers nearly always come and judge. Unfortunately there's not many categories they can judge in that they didn't enter and they rarely can judge BOS. It all creates a logistics challenge. It's tough to find many judges who are not entrants. So, three judges per table is a luxury around here too. A trend some of us should reconsider is returning scoresheets at the end of the comp. This may save time and postage but realistically there's no way for an organizer or overworked staff to fully examine all scoresheets before they're returned. Bruce Pitner Durham NC BJCP National ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dave sapsis Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:33:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Guinness here there and eveywhere George asserts: > Dave Houseman correctly points out that there are two versions of Guinness" Well, I dont exactly know how many versions there are, but its well more than two. In addition to the basic 9.5P dry stuff packaged with N2 and the bottled extra, there are a number of unique tropical variants -- the stuff I have had in bottle form from the Carribbean was far different than the typcial bottled Extra coming from St James Gate. Then there was the draft product I had in Melbourne, brewed locally at the CUB plant (fine makers of VB, natch) that I confirmed with the brewers was made according to a unique recipe for down under: 16P, a touch of unroasted black barley, and a good shot of glucose. It was good: rich hearty, off-dry in the finish, and quite coffee-flavored. Not all that different than the Sheaf Stout also mildly popular in Victoria. I heard somewhere that "Guinness" products are produced at some 30 plants worldwide. Pick one you like, or keep looking. Good stuff. --dave sapsis ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 07:36:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Guinness and American lager George, Duh. You're right. I stand corrected about draught Guinness in bottles with the widget. I've even had one. But we'll have to agree to dissagree about the skills of the mega-brewers. Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lazyeye Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 09:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Guinness and American lager I'm not really sure where George is going with his thread. It appears to be critique of the validity of American Light Lager being called "real" beer. If so, I am compelled to counter with a challenge to those who have distain for this (admittedly) rather bland beer (yes folks, it IS beer) to replicate it. You will discover that only the most savy and experienced homebrewers are able to come close. There is no room for inferior ingredients or process error in brewing a batch of this stuff. And, I'm not ashamed to state that I enjoy Coors Banquet Beer very much.......it's just that I can't handle too much of it before I need to move on to a locally brewed craft beer with more flavor. Quality beer is quality beer regardless of it's style or the size of the brewery, and should be appreciated for what it is rather than attacked for what it is not. "Craft" beers, remember, represent only about 5% of the market. 95% of beer consumers can't be totally stupid, can they? I beg the answer. Norman Dickenson BJCP Grand Master Beer Judge Twice Best of Show winner for American Wheat Beer Once for Czech Pilsner Former Brewer at Marin Brewing Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George de Piro Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 08:33:35 -0400 Subject: Guinness and American lager Hi all, Dave also goes on to praise the industrial brewers of American- style lagers. He commends them, as many do, for their consistent quality: ---- "The art and science that these mega-breweries exhibit in creating the same beer,year-in, year-out from malt and hops that vary crop to crop, from water available in different cities and yeast that can mutate on them. Frankly when mowing the lawn on 90+ oF days, American Standard Lagers, and Coors specifically is pretty damn refreshing." ---- Perhaps I've just heard this too many times, but I can't remain reticent about this sentiment. Firstly, it is easy to make consistent beer when the most variable ingredient - hops - is at or below taste threshold. The bland, pale malt they use is not as difficult to produce consistently as high-dried malts, either, and it's taste is barely noticeable in the beer. Maintaining yeast cultures is far from difficult; many homebrewers do this as a sort of side-hobby. Water is easily treated in the modern brewhouse to allow for consistency despite geography. Rice and corn are both relatively bland. One must also remember that each batch of a mega lager may not be within specification, but since they brew sooooo many batches of the same product, they are able to blend batches for consistency. This is not difficult as much as it is a logistics problem for smaller brewers. There is a difference between crafting beer and cranking out product. The mega brewers have industrialized the brewing process to the detriment of American beer culture; to them, beer is a commodity. Consistency alone does not make beer good, and it really isn't even terribly impressive. On an even more subjective note, I prefer water on a hot day. Alcohol doesn't really slake thirst, and if I am going to drink anything that can possibly harm my liver, it had better be damn tasty! Have fun! George de Piro Brewmaster, C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station 19 Quackenbush Square Albany, NY, USA 12207 (518)447-9000 www.EvansAle.com Lord help me to be the person my dog thinks I am. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************