Subject: Digest for the period 3/29/2005 - 3/30/2005 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:04:48 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: CEP suggestion (Mike Dixon) 2. Judging/CEP (Jon Tobey) 3. Homebrew Fair (Moum, Alan) 4. Re: Homebrew Fair (John B. Doherty) 5. Re: error in 2004 BJCP style guidelines (Ed Westemeier) 6. AHA National Homebrew Competition (Gary Glass) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:48:23 -0500 Subject: Re: CEP suggestion Jon Tobey questions why I burned out on competing in his reply to my digest post: > What I find interesting in your rather adamant reply is why you are so "burned > out " as a competitor, yet still judge? I mean, if as a brewer you basically > don't think competitions are worth entering, maybe we could make competitions > more fun for the people who still put forth the effort. But, again, I digress. His statement incorrectly implies that I think comps are not worth entering which is not the case at all. In fact, the converse is true, it's just that I don't plan to enter the fray again for awhile. (In fact I stated that in my last sentence of my previous response. "I might enter the fray again in a few years, but being forced to brew and enter is not what the BJCP is all about.") Then along came the post by John B. Doherty which hit the nail on the head: > Try brewing 25+ batches a year, entering 150 entries a year for two years, > spending over $1,500 on entry fees alone (never mind the costs of ingredients, > equipment and TIME spent). I didn't win any huge honor if viewed from the outside, but in reality I came in third in NC Brewer of the Year behind a Ninkasi winner who is also a Master BJCP Judge who took second place and another BCJP Judge who took first place. Both those gentlemen consistently brew outstanding beer. That also doesn't shine light on the fact that another excellent brewer and myself were neck to neck for the third place finish. Over just that 5 competition series I remember writing many checks that approached $100 and was brewing nearly every weekend I was not judging. As John mentioned, it can burn you out. Now as to the second part of Jon Tobey's response, why I still judge, it is because I enjoy judging and I don't have to prepare weeks in advance to judge. I do have to spend time now with the new guidelines and reread prior to judging, but that can happen at the table the day of the competition. I put my email and website on every scoresheet I judge and ask for feedback from the brewer's if they find something they question about the way I judge. That holds much more power IMO than simply forcing judges to enter beers. Anyway, to set the record straight, I am a strong advocate for competitions and believe they will assist many new and seasoned brewers in their quest for making the best beer possible. Cheers, Mike Dixon BJCP National Wake Forest, NC www.ipass.net/mpdixon/ ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Tobey Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 06:02:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Judging/CEP I sent this yesterday, seems to have gone missing... Okay, people don't want to have to be brewers to judge. I still think that giving CEP points for competitionis a good idea because, all things being equal, brewers will be better able to help people make better beer. I know for myself, when I was only judging and not brewing, I felt very ineffective and actually returned to brewing to become a better judge. Jon Tobey Ideastream 360-793-8831 "Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them." - Alfred Whitehead ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Moum, Alan Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:18:50 -0800 Subject: Homebrew Fair Hello, I just subscribed to this list yesterday and received my first digest of postings. Very interesting stuff. =20 I don't know if you have talked about a pending event in Seattle called the Homebrew Fair (homebrewfair.com, April 9). Instead of a traditional homebrew competition the idea is to get the judges and brewers to sit down together and discuss the beer, not just to produce a delimited score sheet and point score. It will demand more time from judges and brewers but it can be of great benefit to both. How often do judges get feedback about their judging? Jon Tobey is the founder and organizer of this event and as such I'm sure he's been giving much abstract and practical thought to the whole field of beer judging lately. I hope he's not having a hard time finding enough judges (BJCP and otherwise) thus leading to his suggestion that BJCP judges be required to judge at least once each year. That requirement might be a bit harsh given that "life happens", as stated by several posters, but perhaps a requirement to judge once every X number of years would be worth considering. =20 Jon started with the premise of using a mix of BJCP judges, professional brewers, and experienced homebrewers and beer drinkers working together to analyze entered homebrews. It's very interesting to see the frequent variations in perception of a beer from these different groups. Many people note an overemphasis on style and its effect on beer scores, but given the practical limits of judging hundreds of beers it's hard to avoid this. I'd like to see competitions where a few judges that agree a beer is entered in the "wrong style" can move it to the proper category for further judging. I myself often fall into the "style trap" while judging beer and visiting new breweries, etc. I'll taste 10-15 beers, then go back for a pint or two at the end. After I've left I often realize I had pints of beers that weren't my favorites, but were "best for their style". I guess subconsciously I'm looking for ideas for the next time I brew that style of beer. Some of the best beers I've ever tasted didn't fit any previously defined styles and I hope this doesn't prevent their brewers from continuing with that beer, or seeking more completely original (or hybrid) brews. I do know of a few craft brewers that changed great brews to more properly fit a style (sometimes with competitions in mind) and thus reduced the excellence of their beer. =20 Anyways, I just wanted to alert any judges or potential judges within reach of the Seattle area about the Homebrew Fair. You can register online to judge, or register your beer for judging. I'm really excited about the idea and hope it becomes an annual event. =20 =20 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John B. Doherty Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:10:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Homebrew Fair --- "Moum, Alan" wrote: > Jon Tobey is the founder and organizer of > this event and as such I'm sure he's been giving much abstract and > practical thought to the whole field of beer judging lately. I hope > he's not having a hard time finding enough judges (BJCP and otherwise) > thus leading to his suggestion that BJCP judges be required to judge at > least once each year. That requirement might be a bit harsh given that > "life happens", as stated by several posters, but perhaps a requirement > to judge once every X number of years would be worth considering. Alan, You completely mis-read Jon Tobey's proposal. The BJCP already requires that you judge at least once every two years to remain an active judge. What Jon proposed was to require that judges ENTER _homebrew they have brewed_ in at least one competition a year. That's why everyone is seriously criticizing his proposal - what if you can't / don't brew for a period of time? You should lose your judging credentials? Analogy - You don't often see gymnastics judges tumbling and twirling in their free time so that they can remain gymnastics judges, do you? No, they gain gymnastics judging experience by judging gymnastics. Might it help if they were perhaps former gymnasts? Sure. The BJCP is way ahead of the game since the vast majority of our judges currently brew or have brewed at one point in their lives. Do you suppose many wine judges are vintners? Cheers, John Doherty Lakeville, MA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Westemeier Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:08:44 -0500 Subject: Re: error in 2004 BJCP style guidelines On Mar 29, 2005, at 1:02 AM, Geoffrey McNally wrote: > > I found an error in the full version of the 2004 style guidelines. All versions of the current guidelines were recently updated with corrections (just a few typos and transpositions for the most part; nothing really substantive). In uploading the new files, I accidentally included a link to an older, incorrect version. All guidelines now on the BJCP website are correct, and we will be adding more formats in the near future. By the way, if you haven't seen the new "Flashcards" version, you should check it out. Handy as a study aid for the exam, but also extremely useful for use as judging table references at a competition. Thanks to Sean Hewitt for creating it. Ed Westemeier ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gary Glass Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:53:39 -0700 Subject: AHA National Homebrew Competition Hi Everyone, The American Homebrewers Association's National Homebrew Competition is rapidly approaching. Don't miss your chance to participate in the world's largest beer competition! Last year's competition drew over 4400 entries. Entries due April 4-15. See www.beertown.org/events/nhc/index.html for competition details including Rules & Regs, Entry Forms, Entry Locations, judging information, etc. The first round is judged at ten regional sites around the US and Canada. First, second, and third place winners in each of the 2004 BJCP Categories as well as our "New Entrants" category advance to the second round of the competition held at the AHA National Homebrewers Conference in Baltimore, MD. (Cider categories are all judged in one round at the Cider site in Red Hook, NY.) AHA Homebrewer of the Year, Meadmaker of the Year, Cidermaker of the Year, Ninkasi Award winner (winningest brewer) and Homebrew Club of the Year will be announced at the Grand Banquet and Awards Ceremony at the National Homebrewers Conference. Last year's prize display at the Grand Banquet in Las Vegas stretched over 50 feet! For more information on the AHA National Homebrewers Conference in Baltimore, MD, June 16-18, 2005, see www.ahaconference.org WE NEED JUDGES! This is your chance to judge in the largest and most prestigious homebrew competition in the world. Regional judging will be taking place during the last two weekends in April (check with local sites for exact judging dates) in San Diego, Portland, Seattle, Denver, Houston, St. Paul, MN, Libertyville, IL, Westlake, OH, Rochester, NY, and Regina, SK. Cider judging will be held in Red Hook, NY. For the judging contacts in your region, see www.beertown.org/events/nhc/judging2nd.html. This competition is AHA Sanctioned and registered with the BJCP. Thanks to all of our sponsors and the volunteers around the country who make this great competition possible! Good Luck in the Competition! Gary Glass, Project Coordinator Brewers Association 888-U-CAN-BREW (303) 447-0816 x 121 gary`at`brewersassociation.org www.beertown.org ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************