Subject: Digest for the period 3/28/2005 - 3/29/2005 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:02:52 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. entering competitions (Jeff & Ellen) 2. Judges & Entries Needed, 12th Annual BUZZ Off May 21st (Christopher Clair) 3. Judges entering competitions (Stephen Johnson) 4. Re: I have some questions (Joe Preiser) 5. Re: A CEP Suggestion (Joe Preiser) 6. CEP suggestion (Jon Tobey) 7. Questions about BJCP (Kevin Pratt) 8. Re: questions (Ed Westemeier) 9. RE: I have some questions (Al Boyce) 10. error in 2004 BJCP style guidelines (McNally Geoffrey A NPRI) 11. BJCP (ns)FAQs (Gordon Strong) 12. Re: Digest for the period 3/27/2005 - 3/28/2005 (Bob Paolino) 13. Re: CEP suggestion (John B. Doherty) 14. maintain credentials . . (Big) 15. Re: Requiring judges to enter contests (Peter Torgrimson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff & Ellen Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:56:29 -0500 Subject: entering competitions Jon Tobey wrote in suggesting that it be a requirement that judges enter at least one competition per year. Most homebrewers tend to respect the comments of judges who are also good homebrewers more than those who have not brewed recently, regardless of rank, but I'm not sure that making it a requirement is such a good idea. Making it a very strong suggestion may be an option, by adding points to the rank for winning at a certain level of competition. For instance those high-ranking judges who have not brewed recently could more quickly attain that coveted Grand Master II by entering and winning at the AHA Nationals or a MCAB event. Points could be rewarded in a similar manner to experience points adding some incentive to brew and enter competitions. One doesn't necessarily need to be a good brewer to have a good pallet or to be a good judge, but the level of respect from fellow judges and homebrewers would be increased upon seeing his beer judged by someone who is currently an award-winning brewer. Jeff Gladish, Tampa ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Clair Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 21:55:22 -0500 Subject: Judges & Entries Needed, 12th Annual BUZZ Off May 21st Brewers Unlimited Zany Zymurgists (BUZZ) is proud to announce that the 2005 BUZZ Off home brew competition will be held on Saturday, May 21st at Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant in West Chester, PA. For another year we will be a qualifying event for the prestigious Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing (MCAB) as well as the Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year. All BJCP recognized styles (2004 guidelines) including meads and ciders are eligible for entry. For complete details and forms, please visit the BUZZ web site at http://hbd.org/buzz. Entries will be accepted between May 1st and May 15th. For drop off and mail in locations please refer to the BUZZ web site. Please, do not send entries to Iron Hill. BJCP Judges and stewards will be needed. If you are interested please contact me or another committee member (contact information can be found on the web site). All judges must be BJCP certified (any ranking). Good luck and cheers! Christopher Clair buzzclub verizon.net http://hbd.org/buzz "The mouth of a perfectly happy man is filled with beer." - Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, 2200 B.C. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Johnson Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 21:58:18 -0600 Subject: Judges entering competitions Jon Tobey brings up a good point about recommending that the Continuing Education Program and the BJCP bring up a requirement that BJCP judges be required to enter at least one competition per year to remain active in their judging status. While I understand the premise that Jon brings up, I am a bit skeptical of the real value in terms of improving our judge training and skills that such a requirement would bring to the ongoing education of our current certified judges. As a homebrewer for the past 10 years, I certainly have come to value the feedback from judges whom I have personally come to know and respect for their knowledge of beer styles, the brewing process, and overall respect for the field of brewing in general and how that comes into play in judging homebrewed beers. I also know that many judges who participate in judging competitions are commercial brewers who do not homebrew. Some of the better judges I have looked for feedback from are not homebrewers but are commercial brewers with a great awareness and knowledge of off flavors, style parameters, and brewing process. Many of them have never entered homebrew competitions, and might even be excluded from doing so. Some of them are also judges at the Great American Beer Festival and are not BJCP judges. However, I have also come to realize that many of the competitions I have entered in those same 10 years have had a large number of novice and poorly qualified judges sitting alongside qualified judges because there are not enough judges in our region to adequately staff most competitions with ranked and certified BJCP judges. I have read the feedback from these inadequately trained judges, and see little value to my own judging progress that such score sheets bring me, other than giving me a good example of what NOT to write on a score sheet. Please don't take this as a knock to those members of homebrew clubs who step up and volunteer to judge at their local club's competition. Potential judges have to start somewhere, and as a competition organizer and judge coordinator for many of our competitions, I value and depend upon their participation. I am also doing my best to train our club's novice judges to be more aware of styles, brewing process, and beer flavor flaws. But until we bring our competition judge pool up to certain standards by ranking competitions according the percentage of BJCP judges and rankings they hold who are participating in an event, I see it as short sighted to require our current judges to enter one competition per year just to get a score sheet back from judges who might be less qualified to evaluate their beer than they are. Steve Johnson President, Music City Brewers Nashville, TN BJCP Certified Judge since 1998 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Preiser Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 00:43:34 -0600 Subject: Re: I have some questions See my replies inline. -Joe > From: MeadGuild`at`aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:10:16 EST > Subject: I have some questions > > > Since the BJCP was jointly sponsored by the AHA (American Homebrewers > Association) and the HWBTA (Home Wine & Beer Trade Association), why > are there no wine guidelines? I am not a wine guy so my question is just > curiosity. > No idea, but it is the _Beer_ Judge Certification Program, not the Beer & Wine Judge Certification Program. And let's not get started on the Mead & Cider area. > I have volunteered to be a Steward at NH in Baltimore in June and > plan to take the BJCP exam while there. I am confused after reading > about Steward points. On one hand, it appears that I would get 0.5 > points for the competition regardless of the number of sessions. On > the other hand, it appears that I would get 0.5 points for each > session. I have no problem with which is correct. I'd just like to > know. Stewards earn 0.5 points for the entire competition regardless of number of sessions. > An Apprentice Judge is someone who took the exam and did not get a > grade of 70 or better. I understand that the purpose of this > designation is to motivate people to continue working on passing the > exam. My question is to what extent are an Apprentice Judge's > evaluations weighted with those of other Judges? In general, I believe, the scores from Apprentice judges aren't supposed to count at all. In reality, Apprentice judges' scores are usually counted. > I understand that there are 12 essay questions on the exam. I read > that each essay question is worth 10 points. Does that mean that one > only needs to answer seven questions? Obviously answering more is the > optimal strategy. But is it possible to get more than 70 points from > the essay section? There are 10 essay questions and 4 beer evaluations as part of the full exam. Each portion (essay & evaluation) is weighted (70-30) so, while each question may be worth 10 points, you'll need to answer all 10 completely correctly if you expect to get the 70 points. > Final questions: > Where do I send the $50? > Who is the payee? > Are there annual dues? > Is there an annual minimum of competitions being judged? > I'd expect the exam fee would be sent to the organizing club(s) for the conference and someone in the know will be able to provide that info. There are no dues for the BJCP. IIRC, to remain active in the database, you need to judge at least 1 competition in a 2-year period. I can't find this on the BJCP site so can't confirm that it's still a policy. > > Dick > -- > Richard D. Adams, CPA, etc. > Retired Professor of Accounting > ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Preiser Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 00:58:15 -0600 Subject: Re: A CEP Suggestion I agree with Mike Dixon. In my opinion, there's no benefit in forcing judges to enter competitions. In fact, some of the best judges I know either brew infrequently and don't enter comp or don't even brew at all. While brewing gives hands-on experience regarding the process, I don't believe it's required to understand how brewing works and how to correct any flaws encountered during judging. If we're worried about a prevalence of poorly written scoresheets or incorrect/missing corrective suggestions, let's address that issue directly by offering seminars on scoresheet completion techniques. Forcing judges to enter competitions won't fix this area since those that already enter probably won't change what they're doing and those that don't currently enter won't care because they're only entering because we made them. Joe > From: Mike Dixon Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:21:58 -0500 > Subject: A CEP Suggestion > > > >>From: Jon Tobey >>I'm glad the BJCP finally got involved with a continuing education > > program. I > >>would also suggest that in order to maintain our credentials that it > > become a > >>requirement that every judge must enter at least one contest/year. > > > So let me get this straight... > > You want a continuing education type requirement of having to enter a > competition a year? > > I disagree...quite a bit in fact. > > How do you know when I made the beer that I am now forced to enter in some > competition? Does the comp have to be santioned? Can it be a local event > or must I mail it? Do I have to have made that beer in the previous calendar > year? > > I think it will be more of a pain to enforce than the slight bit of good it > might achieve. > > Anyway, I don't think that my standing over a cooler, brewpot, and/or kettle > for a few hours and then sending that beer to a competition has any standing > on my ability to judge once I have taken and passed the exam (twice in my > case). I've also got enough scoresheets and ribbons to last a lifetime, so > I know and remember crappy feedback from that of a well laid out scoresheet. > > Again, I disagree. This is not a something I believe should be required. I > burned out on competing a year or two back. I might enter the fray again in > a few years, but being forced to brew and enter is not what the BJCP is all > about. > > Cheers, > Mike Dixon > BCJP National > Wake Forest, NC > > > ********************************************************************** > * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * > * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * > * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * > * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * > ********************************************************************** ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Tobey Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:42:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: CEP suggestion Well, of course we'd have to agree that it is a good idea before getting into all of the details. But hey, if somebody wants to be a judge enough to cheat by entering somebody else's beer, go for it. Frankly, that never entered my mind, and it's something we don't do anything about in competition anyway. It's pretty far away from a discussion on the merits of the idea. And actually, I'm not just talking about CEP, I just think judges should brew. Again, based on the premise competitions are about helping people to make better beer, and not just to pick the best beer. What I find interesting in your rather adamant reply is why you are so "burned out " as a competitor, yet still judge? I mean, if as a brewer you basically don't think competitions are worth entering, maybe we could make competitions more fun for the people who still put forth the effort. But, again, I digress. Jon Tobey Ideastream 360-793-8831 "Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them." - Alfred Whitehead ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Pratt Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 05:06:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Questions about BJCP > From: MeadGuild`at`aol.com > Subject: I have some questions > > > Since the BJCP was jointly sponsored by the AHA (American Homebrewers > Association) and the HWBTA (Home Wine & Beer Trade Association), why are there no > wine guidelines? I am not a wine guy so my question is just curiosity. Quite simply, we are the BEER judge program. > > I have volunteered to be a Steward at NH in Baltimore in June and plan to > take the BJCP exam while there. I am confused after reading about Steward > points. On one hand, it appears that I would get 0.5 points for the competition > regardless of the number of sessions. On the other hand, it appears that I would > get 0.5 points for each session. I have no problem with which is correct. > I'd just like to know. Point awards can vex even seasoned orgainzers. As a steward, you'd get 0.5 per day. If the competition goes more than one day, you get another 0.5 for each day you work. You cannot get judging and steward points for the same event, so judging points get priority. For judges, it is a minimum of 1 point per competition or for the first day. Each additional day is 0.5 points, up to the maximum available for the competition (determined by entries). If the competition is eligable for a Best of Show round, judges get an additional 0.5 point for the round. If BOS is a judge's only round, then 1 point is awarded. There is a maximum number of judges allowed depending on BOS size. > > An Apprentice Judge is someone who took the exam and did not get a grade of > 70 or better. I understand that the purpose of this designation is to motivate > people to continue working on passing the exam. My question is to what > extent are an Apprentice Judge's evaluations weighted with those of other Judges? Apprentice evaluations are equal to any other for points and placement consideration. At the table, judges will discuss their evaluations and come to consensus. However, even if in complete agreement, more experienced judges often take the opportunity to add insight to their fellow judges. An important point about the apprentice level is that the judge gets their points recorded and is in the database for being notified by organizers about events. This makes the whole process easier for the future master judge. It is up to the entrant to weigh the comments for themselves when they recieve feedback. > I understand that there are 12 essay questions on the exam. I read that each Ten questions. Each are graded individually. Getting a perfect answer on all of them is very tough. The AVERAGE score for those achieving Master level is just over 90. It is not an easy test, nor should it be, IMHO. There are four beers given for evaluation, usually during the test. To pass, be thorough, communicate clearly and complete all questions. Proper preparation and time management is the key to success. > Final questions: > Where do I send the $50? > Who is the payee? > Are there annual dues? > Is there an annual minimum of competitions being judged? In order: You'll pay the examiner when you test (or when they hold a class) BJCP or sometimes a local club, brewshop or sponsor. Money ends up going to the BJCP. No dues at this time Minimum participation is one contest every two years to remain on the active list. Good Luck! I look forward to your participation! Kevin Pratt BJCP CEP Assistant Director West Representative Candidate __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Westemeier Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 08:06:59 -0500 Subject: Re: questions Richard Adams asked a lot of newbie questions about the BJCP, so here are some very brief answers. Incidentally, all the answers and a lot more are on our website. I don't know where you got some of your assumptions, but please check the website for the details. www.bjcp.org We don't have wine guidelines because it's a beer judge program. Stewards get a half point, period. Apprentice judges got a score of under 60, not 70. They fill out scoresheets just like any other judge. The exam has 10 essay questions, not 12. With a max of 70 % of the total exam, you need to give every question your best shot. You couldn't get more than 70 % on the essay portion, because then you would have to get less than 30 % on the tasting portion. Despite your football coach telling you to give 110 % effort, we try to be careful about our math. Payment of the exam fee is handled by the exam administrator. No annual dues at this time. Minimum req is to judge at least once in two years. Enjoy preparing for the exam, and please take full advantage of the wealth of information on our website. Ed Westemeier BJCP Communication Director ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Al Boyce Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 07:46:35 -0600 Subject: RE: I have some questions MeadGuild`at`aol.com (Dick Adams) asked on Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:10:16 EST >>it appears that I would get 0.5 points for the competition regardless of the number of sessions. That is correct - .5 points max per competition. >>An Apprentice Judge is someone who took the exam and did not get a grade of 70 or better. Actually, it's only 60 points to pass with a Recognized rank. >> ...to what extent are an Apprentice Judge's evaluations weighted with those of other Judges? Varies by competition. Some competition may weight them equally, others may disregard them entirely, if they have enough BJCP-qualified judges for the table. >> I understand that there are 12 essay questions on the exam. Only 10 essay questions on the exam. >>Does that mean that one only needs to answer seven questions? If you think you can answer 6 questions with a perfect score, and you only want to PASS the test, not achieve a score that would qualify you for a higher ranking, then you only need answer 6 questions on the written exam. You would also have to score at least 60% on the tasting portion as well. >>Is it possible to get more than 70 points from the essay section? The essay section has 100 points. The tasting section also has 100 points. Your score is derived by weighting your essay portion to be 70% of your final score, and the tasting portion is weighted 30% of your score: (EssayScore x 70%) + (TastingScore x 70%). For example, if you got 74% on your essay, and 56% on your tasting, your score would be 68.6. (74 x 70%)+(56 x 30%)= 51.8 + 16.8 = 68.6. >>Final questions: >> Where do I send the $50? I'm not aware of the details, but I'm sure they will collect the money from you at the conference, when you take the exam. The organizer of record is Scott Bickham, at bickhamsr`at`corning.com. >> Who is the payee? The organizers will tell you at the time to whom to write the check >> Are there annual dues? Not at this time. >> Is there an annual minimum of competitions being judged? No, but the more you judge, the better judge you will be. Good luck! Al Boyce North Regional Rep/Treasurer Beer Judge Certification Program ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: McNally Geoffrey A NPRI Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:17:15 -0500 Subject: error in 2004 BJCP style guidelines All, As part of organizing this year's South Shore Brewoff (held on March 26th), I found an error in the full version of the 2004 style guidelines. See: http://www.bjcp.org/finalstyles/2004BJCPGuidelines.pdf The "style chart" on page 41 lists blonde ale as 6A and cream ale as 6B. However, the full guidelines on page 6 lists blonde ale as 6B and cream ale as 6A. All of the other versions of the guidelines (rtf, html, and xls) all show blonde ale as 6B and cream ale as 6A, so the error only seems to be in the style chart of the pdf version. Unfortunately I used the pdf style chart while logging entries and after discussing this with the entrant, reclassified a blonde ale as 6A. It subsequently got judged as a cream ale since the full guidelines were used during the competition. However, it still scored well and ended up placing first in it's category. Geoffrey McNally Competition Organizer South Shore Brew Club PS: Results from the competition should be posted on the club website (http://www.southshorebrewclub.org/) in the next couple of days. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gordon Strong Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:36:52 -0500 Subject: BJCP (ns)FAQs Lots of newbie questions from Dick Adams in the Mar 27 digest. I'll give them a shot (inline): > Since the BJCP was jointly sponsored by the AHA (American Homebrewers > Association) and the HWBTA (Home Wine & Beer Trade Association), why are > there no > wine guidelines? I am not a wine guy so my question is just curiosity. Think of it as a joint venture. Half the sponsors were involved in wine, the others weren't. The subject of the JV was beer; hence no wine guidelines. The BJCP is independent now, so the point is somewhat moot. Realisticly, I don't think I've ever seen homebrewed beer and wine judged at the same competition and I've judged at over 120 of them. State Fairs will allow entry for both, but they are usually judged in separate areas/days. That said, I think wine judging (or at least appreciation) is interesting and makes a good "cross-training" exercise for beer judges. Especially those that want to judge mead. > I have volunteered to be a Steward at NH in Baltimore in June and plan to > take the BJCP exam while there. I am confused after reading about Steward > points. On one hand, it appears that I would get 0.5 points for the > competition > regardless of the number of sessions. On the other hand, it appears that > I would > get 0.5 points for each session. I have no problem with which is correct. > I'd just like to know. It's 0.5 non-judging points per competition not session. Quoting from the BJCP Study Guide, "Stewards shall receive 0.5 points for their participation in any event, regardless of size." Done correctly, a steward actually should gain some experience by listening to judging, reviewing scoresheets and sampling beers. Great learning experience for would-be judges. > An Apprentice Judge is someone who took the exam and did not get a grade > of > 70 or better. I understand that the purpose of this designation is to > motivate > people to continue working on passing the exam. My question is to what > extent are an Apprentice Judge's evaluations weighted with those of other > Judges? Apprentice (Novice) is less than 60 not 70. The purpose of the rank is simpler than you think. Everyone who takes the test is a judge and is tracked in the database. Every judge must have a rank. So there must be a rank for those who fail the test. Those judges in the program (regardless of rank) have their experience points tracked, and don't have to claim them retroactively (two year limit) when retaking the test. When you say "weighted", I guess it depends on the context. The scores from all judges (Apprentice, Recognized+, or not in the BJCP) should be taken into account when assigning a final score to a beer in a competition. After you score the beers and have a discussion (and possible rescoring), the scores are usually just averaged. Rank doesn't give any extra weighting, except perhaps in the discussion. However, experience, knowledge, perceptive skills and persuasive abilities are far more likely to cause other judge's scores to be adjusted than rank alone. Now, if you're talking about how does the entrant value the various scores, they may take rank into consideration although they are more likely to respond to a good scoresheet regardless of rank. > I understand that there are 12 essay questions on the exam. I read that > each > essay question is worth 10 points. Does that mean that one only needs to > answer seven questions? Obviously answering more is the optimal strategy. > But > is it possible to get more than 70 points from the essay section? Nope. 10 essay questions not 12. You should answer them all. If you only answer 7, then your maximum written score is 70 not 100. The essay section is worth 100 points (as is the tasting section). They are weighted by 70% and 30%, respectively, to get the total score for the exam. > Final questions: > Where do I send the $50? Pay the exam administrator (i.e., the person who schedule the exam; the person listed on the BJCP web site as the contact person for the exam) directly. > Who is the payee? Pay the exam administrator directly by check or cash. That person will write one check to the BJCP. > Are there annual dues? No. Continuing operations appear to generate positive cash flow and large amounts of idle cash appear to invite mischief (ahem). > Is there an annual minimum of competitions being judged? No. The BJCP usually sanctions around 200 competitions a year. You just need to judge in one of them every two years to stay on active status. You can still earn experience points when inactive (thus becoming active again), but you won't be included in lists of judges sent to competition organizers. > I wish I knew about BJCP 20 years ago! Better late than never, as they say. You should really check out the Study Guide on the BJCP web site (http://www.bjcp.org/study.html). It has many of these answers. Also check out a presentation I gave a few years ago (http://www.bjcp.org/mastering.pdf) on how to improve your score on the exam. Good luck. Gordon ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Paolino Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:47:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 3/27/2005 - 3/28/2005 > Since the BJCP was jointly sponsored by the AHA (American Homebrewers > Association) and the HWBTA (Home Wine & Beer Trade Association), why are there no > wine guidelines? I am not a wine guy so my question is just curiosity. Because it's a _Beer_ Judge Certification Program ;-) The HWBTA could do its own competitions (presumably for either beverage). I judged at what I believe was its final national (beer) competition. (Millrose). Some clubs went with HWBTA sanctioning for their competitions because of discontent with AHA's role at the time. > > An Apprentice Judge is someone who took the exam and did not get a grade of > 70 or better. I understand that the purpose of this designation is to 60. motivate > people to continue working on passing the exam. My question is to what > extent are an Apprentice Judge's evaluations weighted with those of other Judges? There is no formal weighting based on judge rank. Ideally, your table's high and low scores will be within 7 (or 5) points, or will _get_ there as a result of discussion/consensus. > Final questions: > Where do I send the $50? > Who is the payee? > Are there annual dues? No. You pay your "dues" through your service in judging competitions. > Is there an annual minimum of competitions being judged? Once every two years (I think). If you want to be good, obviously, you need to do it more often than that. Good luck and good judging! Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino "Are Canadians just Americans who carry hockey sticks instead of guns, or is there more to it than that?" --"This Canadian Existence" Wisconsin Public Radio ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X against HTML e-mail: / \ Friends don't send friends HTML-bloated messages! A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top-posting frowned upon? ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John B. Doherty Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 07:40:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CEP suggestion --- Jon Tobey wrote: > And actually, I'm not just talking about CEP, I just think judges should > brew. Again, based on the premise competitions are about helping people to > make better beer, and not just to pick the best beer. What about judges who for one reason or another CAN'T brew, either permanently or temporarily? Have you ever moved? changed jobs? had a child? gotten sick or injured? Brewing can pretty easily take a back seat to LIFE. I haven't brewed in three years, but I've judged 10+ times in that period. Why? Life happens. > What I find interesting in your rather adamant reply is why you are so > "burned out" as a competitor, yet still judge? I mean, if as a brewer you > basically don't think competitions are worth entering, maybe we could make > competitions more fun for the people who still put forth the effort. But, > again, I digress. How do you imply that the previous poster "basically doesn't think competitions are worth entering"? If they thought competitions weren't worth entering, then why would they "waste" their time judging them? Sounds to me like they are supporting the hobby in the best manner (judging) in which they can, given their current circumstances. Try brewing 25+ batches a year, entering 150 entries a year for two years, spending over $1,500 on entry fees alone (never mind the costs of ingredients, equipment and TIME spent). Oh, and organizing the Boston Homebrew Competition two years in a row. That's BURNOUT. An MCAB V victory in Washington D.C. at the tail end of all that was truly a tremendous honor, but I simply got burnt out on brewing and entering competitions. Did I suddenly decide that BJCP competitions were not worth entering? NO. Quite the opposite - I have even more respect than ever for BCJP competitions - those persons who organize them, enter them, and judge them. I've played each of those parts, and enjoyed it greatly. I can fit in the occasional Saturday to judge at a regional competition, but I needed a break from brewing (and organizing). Funny... you'd be surprised at how many people in New England have personally thanked me for NOT entering competitions recently! :) I must be such a bad judge. I should have had my judging credentials voided a year ago since the last competition I entered was MCAB V on 2/8/03. Judge beer if you are able. Brew beer if you are able. Drink beer if you are able. ...two outta three ain't bad. Cheers, John Doherty Lakeville, MA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Big Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 07:56:12 -0800 Subject: maintain credentials . . ...in order to maintain our credentials that it become a > requirement that every judge must enter at least one contest/year. ---------- i read this as requiring one "judging" event . . . ...a competition a year? I think it will be more of a pain to enforce than the slight bit of good it might achieve. ----------- it oughta be a snap to enforce: no judging points, no entering. and, like chess, the more time between events, the more points you LOSE ! . . . ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Torgrimson Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:04:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Requiring judges to enter contests Jon Tobey proposes a requirement for judges to enter contests. The thinking behind this proposal is appealing. However, I know of several excellent judges who are not active brewers at this time. Each of these individuals has an excellent palate, good sense of problems in brewing, and is very articulate -- excellent qualities in a judge. I always pay special attention when I get a score sheet from one of these judges. I would hate to lose their participation because, for whatever reason, they are not in a position to submit entries in homebrew competitions. Peter Torgrimson Austin, TX ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Manage your subscription online: http://synchro.com/judge * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************