Subject: Digest for the period 4/22/2004 - 4/23/2004 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:02:34 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. New categories, assigned scores (Spencer W. Thomas) 2. More Judges needed- Philly Comp. (Joseph Uknalis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:52:08 -0400 Subject: New categories, assigned scores Dion notes that the new categories include "significant renumbering" and is concerned that confusion could result. Yup. When you reshuffle the subcategories as much as the new groupings do, there's no way to keep the same numbering scheme. I guess we could number them 101 to 128 instead. Then there's no possibility of confusion. I'm not trying to minimize the problem, but there is no way to keep the same numbering anyway. Consider Munich Helles. It's 1D in the new scheme, and was 2D in the old scheme. But American lager is 1A-C in the new scheme, 1A in the old. And CAP is now 2C, was 1C. There's no way to maintain consistency in the major category numbers. I note that now, Lagers are 1-5, 6 is the "semi-lagers", and 7-19 are ales. I like that. Yes, transition will be painful, but I think it'll be good in the long run. On another topic, Bryan Gros wonders why we can't rank beers just on average score. Well, usually it's for one of 2 reasons: 1. Combination of flights. If a category must be split over 2 or more "tables", then a "mini-BOS" is typically used to pick the top 3 beers out of the category. In that case, we can't assume that the separate tables scores are correlated closely enough that we can pick the top 3 numeric scores. 2. Disagreement among judges. Suppose judge A gives two beers scores (respectively) of 43 and 41, and judge B gives them 41 and 44. Ignore the numbers, accepting that a score difference of 1/2 point is immaterial. Judge A thinks the first beer is better. Judge B thinks the second is better. They need to go off in the corner and "slug it out" to reach a consensus ordering. It might be 1-2, or it might be 2-1. My experience is that this process leads to better decision making than just blindly taking the numbers. =S ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Uknalis Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: More Judges needed- Philly Comp. If you were thinking of judging, but didn't sign up... Please contact Joe (birman`at`netaxs.com, or 215-233-6439) ASAP The comp will be this Saturday (4/24) at 10am at the Nodding Head Brewery and Restruant (1516 Sansom St, Philly) We have 130 entries and 14 judges & we'd like some more (judges that is) thanks Joe Uknalis Minister of Judging Homebrewers of Philly & Suburbs ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 4/22/2004 - 4/23/2004 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:02:34 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. New categories, assigned scores (Spencer W. Thomas) 2. More Judges needed- Philly Comp. (Joseph Uknalis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:52:08 -0400 Subject: New categories, assigned scores Dion notes that the new categories include "significant renumbering" and is concerned that confusion could result. Yup. When you reshuffle the subcategories as much as the new groupings do, there's no way to keep the same numbering scheme. I guess we could number them 101 to 128 instead. Then there's no possibility of confusion. I'm not trying to minimize the problem, but there is no way to keep the same numbering anyway. Consider Munich Helles. It's 1D in the new scheme, and was 2D in the old scheme. But American lager is 1A-C in the new scheme, 1A in the old. And CAP is now 2C, was 1C. There's no way to maintain consistency in the major category numbers. I note that now, Lagers are 1-5, 6 is the "semi-lagers", and 7-19 are ales. I like that. Yes, transition will be painful, but I think it'll be good in the long run. On another topic, Bryan Gros wonders why we can't rank beers just on average score. Well, usually it's for one of 2 reasons: 1. Combination of flights. If a category must be split over 2 or more "tables", then a "mini-BOS" is typically used to pick the top 3 beers out of the category. In that case, we can't assume that the separate tables scores are correlated closely enough that we can pick the top 3 numeric scores. 2. Disagreement among judges. Suppose judge A gives two beers scores (respectively) of 43 and 41, and judge B gives them 41 and 44. Ignore the numbers, accepting that a score difference of 1/2 point is immaterial. Judge A thinks the first beer is better. Judge B thinks the second is better. They need to go off in the corner and "slug it out" to reach a consensus ordering. It might be 1-2, or it might be 2-1. My experience is that this process leads to better decision making than just blindly taking the numbers. =S ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Uknalis Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: More Judges needed- Philly Comp. If you were thinking of judging, but didn't sign up... Please contact Joe (birman`at`netaxs.com, or 215-233-6439) ASAP The comp will be this Saturday (4/24) at 10am at the Nodding Head Brewery and Restruant (1516 Sansom St, Philly) We have 130 entries and 14 judges & we'd like some more (judges that is) thanks Joe Uknalis Minister of Judging Homebrewers of Philly & Suburbs ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************