Subject: Digest for the period 4/3/2004 - 4/4/2004 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:02:36 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. competition reminder - 9th annual South Shore Brewoff (McNally Geoffrey A NPRI) 2. Stopping the discussion is bad (Steve Casselman) 3. sapsis eats crow (dave sapsis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: McNally Geoffrey A NPRI Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:52:10 -0500 Subject: competition reminder - 9th annual South Shore Brewoff This is a reminder that the 9th annual South Shore Brewoff will be held on Saturday, May 1st, 2004 at the Rock Bottom Restaurant and Brewery in Braintree, MA. The entry deadline is Friday, April 16th, 2004. Entry and judging information is available from the South Shore Brew Club website at: http://members.aol.com/brewclub Geoffrey McNally Competition Organizer ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Casselman Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:37:13 -0800 Subject: Stopping the discussion is bad I don't like the idea of tabling the discussion about the exam. I'm sorry if the people on the committee have to address all the misconceptions (although this sounds like a good thing to me). Stopping the discussion smacks me as a control move which I think is counter productive. I don't mean to insult anyone please don't take it personally. Having said that my proposal for a newbie test doesn't take anyway anything from the current system. If you want to take the masters test go for it. The same 90% rule holds. However if you are just starting out, taking a multiple guess test that won't let you get any farther than certified takes the pressure off the test taker and test scorer. It makes life easier for everyone. I know of lots of people who take the class and don't take the test. A newbie test would make us a more inclusive organization and isn't that what we want? I don't want to have to more that one test just an introductory level test. Something to take the pressure off everyone and get more people involved, for example people who don't brew but _can_ judge. Steve Casselman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dave sapsis Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:33:13 -0800 Subject: sapsis eats crow Good catch Tom: >Dave - I have to disagree with you here. I have administered an exam where >I would only allow 2.5 hours for a partial retake of the written portion. >Here is an excerpt from an email exchange I had with Peter Garofalo who, in >case you didn't know or forgot, is the BJCP Western Exam Director. I misspoke -- I thought you meant regarding a full retake. What I meant to say was that there are two existing methods by which the time issue is somewhat alleviated: the separate partial retakes yielding a total of 3.5 hours that Scott outlined, and the somewhat sly loophole method of retaking both sections but only completing the essays, thus giving you three hours. Since an examinee's best score is the combined total from *any* sections they have taken, there is no penalty for not turing in a taste section. My somewhat displaced comment about Administrators not following directions has more to do with other issues of procedures (including the specific recomendations about exam beers, instructions to examinees, return of materials, fees, etc.) Indeed, I know who Peter Garofalo is, as he stepped up to replace me when I stood down from the Western ED position. He is a far smarter fellow than I, but apparently not quite wise enough to know fully what a frustrating job Exam Director can be. Not done with my errors, I have been corrected regarding the transitive use of "obsolete", as in render useless or out-of-date. Strangely, according to OED, it is primarily a North American usage in this form, which I can only say seems stilted to me. Still, was the quoted sentence clear to anyone? cheers, --dave ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 4/3/2004 - 4/4/2004 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:02:36 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. competition reminder - 9th annual South Shore Brewoff (McNally Geoffrey A NPRI) 2. Stopping the discussion is bad (Steve Casselman) 3. sapsis eats crow (dave sapsis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: McNally Geoffrey A NPRI Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:52:10 -0500 Subject: competition reminder - 9th annual South Shore Brewoff This is a reminder that the 9th annual South Shore Brewoff will be held on Saturday, May 1st, 2004 at the Rock Bottom Restaurant and Brewery in Braintree, MA. The entry deadline is Friday, April 16th, 2004. Entry and judging information is available from the South Shore Brew Club website at: http://members.aol.com/brewclub Geoffrey McNally Competition Organizer ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Casselman Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:37:13 -0800 Subject: Stopping the discussion is bad I don't like the idea of tabling the discussion about the exam. I'm sorry if the people on the committee have to address all the misconceptions (although this sounds like a good thing to me). Stopping the discussion smacks me as a control move which I think is counter productive. I don't mean to insult anyone please don't take it personally. Having said that my proposal for a newbie test doesn't take anyway anything from the current system. If you want to take the masters test go for it. The same 90% rule holds. However if you are just starting out, taking a multiple guess test that won't let you get any farther than certified takes the pressure off the test taker and test scorer. It makes life easier for everyone. I know of lots of people who take the class and don't take the test. A newbie test would make us a more inclusive organization and isn't that what we want? I don't want to have to more that one test just an introductory level test. Something to take the pressure off everyone and get more people involved, for example people who don't brew but _can_ judge. Steve Casselman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dave sapsis Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:33:13 -0800 Subject: sapsis eats crow Good catch Tom: >Dave - I have to disagree with you here. I have administered an exam where >I would only allow 2.5 hours for a partial retake of the written portion. >Here is an excerpt from an email exchange I had with Peter Garofalo who, in >case you didn't know or forgot, is the BJCP Western Exam Director. I misspoke -- I thought you meant regarding a full retake. What I meant to say was that there are two existing methods by which the time issue is somewhat alleviated: the separate partial retakes yielding a total of 3.5 hours that Scott outlined, and the somewhat sly loophole method of retaking both sections but only completing the essays, thus giving you three hours. Since an examinee's best score is the combined total from *any* sections they have taken, there is no penalty for not turing in a taste section. My somewhat displaced comment about Administrators not following directions has more to do with other issues of procedures (including the specific recomendations about exam beers, instructions to examinees, return of materials, fees, etc.) Indeed, I know who Peter Garofalo is, as he stepped up to replace me when I stood down from the Western ED position. He is a far smarter fellow than I, but apparently not quite wise enough to know fully what a frustrating job Exam Director can be. Not done with my errors, I have been corrected regarding the transitive use of "obsolete", as in render useless or out-of-date. Strangely, according to OED, it is primarily a North American usage in this form, which I can only say seems stilted to me. Still, was the quoted sentence clear to anyone? cheers, --dave ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************