Subject: Digest for the period 2/11/2004 - 2/12/2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:01:42 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Judge information online? (Bob Paolino) 2. Re: "Ratio"nal thoughts? (Steve Casselman) 3. Re: Judging Points (Bill Wible) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Paolino Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:09:47 -0500 Subject: Judge information online? > You are correct, they are sent out, but you would never, ever have to wait > if they were available online. You could send out a note to all judges in > anticipation of the competition months before the competition is fully > organized. Some comps register 6 months or more before the comp, we > generally get it in a few months before. Having availability online would > end anyone having to take time to print labels or to send an electronic file > unless it was specifically requested. Just a suggestion... I don't see the problem if the competition is registered that far in advance. I'm not going to commit to judging a particular event six months before it happens. If I see it on a calendar or get information about it in some other way, I may keep it in mind, but too many other things can come up in that length of time that I don't actually say, "yes, I will be there" until I'm reasonably confident that I'll have that weekend free to judge. I'd be more concerned about personal information like address, telephone number, email address lists being on a website where it might be possible for someone to use it for other than its intended purpose. Even on a password-protected site theoretically accessible only by BJCP members, it would be too easy for someone to use the mailing list for a personal business. That person may rationalise "it's okay, it's a homebrew shop, and these people are interested in beer." The interest in beer and homebrewing is there, of course, but it certainly DOES NOT follow that it's somehow okay to spam/junk mail a group of beer judges (and all that would be accomplished is assure that I would refuse to do business with that company). The valid users for the BJCP judge database are competition organisers--and to use it for that particular registered competition. If the competition is registered early enough, the organiser will have the information more than soon enough to use it to recruit judges. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino "Homer, why don't you get one of those hands-free phones? It's the next best thing to paying attention to the road." --Barney, The Simpsons ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X against HTML e-mail: / \ Friends don't send friends HTML-bloated messages! A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Casselman Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:12:55 -0800 Subject: Re: "Ratio"nal thoughts? >You are correct, they are sent out, but you would never, ever have to wait >if they were available online. You could send out a note to all judges in >anticipation of the competition months before the competition is fully >organized. Some comps register 6 months or more before the comp, we >generally get it in a few months before. Having availability online would >end anyone having to take time to print labels or to send an electronic file >unless it was specifically requested. Just a suggestion... >Cheers, >Mike Have an online password protected database so people can get in. I have also avocated a data base with all the people who enter so they can be pull up when beers are logged into a compitition. There much be 10 different home grown data base programs that help everyone log in beers for a compitition. Get one written in some net aware system and lets standartize on it. Then you just plug into a phone line log in and you are ready to go. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Wible Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:04:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Judging Points I notice that the guys who are complaining about not getting their points all seem to be lower level judges: Recognized trying to get to Certified, Or Certified trying to get to National. I don't see many National or Master level judges complaining about not getting points. Why? Because the points matter MORE to the lower level guys. I read this to mean that we have alot of guys in the program who are serious about it, and who are doing their best to meet the requirements laid out for them by the BJCP. Isn't this is a good thing? I think so. The BJCP made the requirements, and said you need x number of points and y for a test score to get advanced to level z. So when people have met those requirements, and are just waiting for it to be recorded and made official, then sure, they're going to be frustrated when that takes months and months. If all it takes to make these guys happy and keep them involved in the program is to record their points when they judge and periodically send them a new piece of paper with a different title printed on it - Geez, that's not asking much - to me, anyway. The National and Master level judges met their requirements, and were awarded their points and title when they did. These other guys are just asking for the same recognition. So when I see a higher level judge berating a lower level judge for complaining that he didn't get his points after months and months, well, to me, that's just wrong. You got yours, why shouldn't they get theirs? Sure, there are other reasons for judging besides the points and the titles. But everybody has their own motivation, and some people are motivated by titles. And yes, you have to like judging because you don't get much in the way of compensation. But I don't see anybody complaining about hating judging or not wanting to judge. I just see them saying they want their points and recognition that they earned and deserve. And I don't see anything wrong with that. All these guys are waiting for is for their points to be recorded and to be given an "official blessing". And when that doesn't happen after months and months, yes, they will become frustrated and be turned off to judging. And not because they don't enjoy judging, but because the program didn't follow its own rules and recognize them after they earned it. That's what I'm saying. Bill ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 2/11/2004 - 2/12/2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:01:42 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Judge information online? (Bob Paolino) 2. Re: "Ratio"nal thoughts? (Steve Casselman) 3. Re: Judging Points (Bill Wible) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Paolino Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:09:47 -0500 Subject: Judge information online? > You are correct, they are sent out, but you would never, ever have to wait > if they were available online. You could send out a note to all judges in > anticipation of the competition months before the competition is fully > organized. Some comps register 6 months or more before the comp, we > generally get it in a few months before. Having availability online would > end anyone having to take time to print labels or to send an electronic file > unless it was specifically requested. Just a suggestion... I don't see the problem if the competition is registered that far in advance. I'm not going to commit to judging a particular event six months before it happens. If I see it on a calendar or get information about it in some other way, I may keep it in mind, but too many other things can come up in that length of time that I don't actually say, "yes, I will be there" until I'm reasonably confident that I'll have that weekend free to judge. I'd be more concerned about personal information like address, telephone number, email address lists being on a website where it might be possible for someone to use it for other than its intended purpose. Even on a password-protected site theoretically accessible only by BJCP members, it would be too easy for someone to use the mailing list for a personal business. That person may rationalise "it's okay, it's a homebrew shop, and these people are interested in beer." The interest in beer and homebrewing is there, of course, but it certainly DOES NOT follow that it's somehow okay to spam/junk mail a group of beer judges (and all that would be accomplished is assure that I would refuse to do business with that company). The valid users for the BJCP judge database are competition organisers--and to use it for that particular registered competition. If the competition is registered early enough, the organiser will have the information more than soon enough to use it to recruit judges. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino "Homer, why don't you get one of those hands-free phones? It's the next best thing to paying attention to the road." --Barney, The Simpsons ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X against HTML e-mail: / \ Friends don't send friends HTML-bloated messages! A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Casselman Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:12:55 -0800 Subject: Re: "Ratio"nal thoughts? >You are correct, they are sent out, but you would never, ever have to wait >if they were available online. You could send out a note to all judges in >anticipation of the competition months before the competition is fully >organized. Some comps register 6 months or more before the comp, we >generally get it in a few months before. Having availability online would >end anyone having to take time to print labels or to send an electronic file >unless it was specifically requested. Just a suggestion... >Cheers, >Mike Have an online password protected database so people can get in. I have also avocated a data base with all the people who enter so they can be pull up when beers are logged into a compitition. There much be 10 different home grown data base programs that help everyone log in beers for a compitition. Get one written in some net aware system and lets standartize on it. Then you just plug into a phone line log in and you are ready to go. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Wible Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:04:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Judging Points I notice that the guys who are complaining about not getting their points all seem to be lower level judges: Recognized trying to get to Certified, Or Certified trying to get to National. I don't see many National or Master level judges complaining about not getting points. Why? Because the points matter MORE to the lower level guys. I read this to mean that we have alot of guys in the program who are serious about it, and who are doing their best to meet the requirements laid out for them by the BJCP. Isn't this is a good thing? I think so. The BJCP made the requirements, and said you need x number of points and y for a test score to get advanced to level z. So when people have met those requirements, and are just waiting for it to be recorded and made official, then sure, they're going to be frustrated when that takes months and months. If all it takes to make these guys happy and keep them involved in the program is to record their points when they judge and periodically send them a new piece of paper with a different title printed on it - Geez, that's not asking much - to me, anyway. The National and Master level judges met their requirements, and were awarded their points and title when they did. These other guys are just asking for the same recognition. So when I see a higher level judge berating a lower level judge for complaining that he didn't get his points after months and months, well, to me, that's just wrong. You got yours, why shouldn't they get theirs? Sure, there are other reasons for judging besides the points and the titles. But everybody has their own motivation, and some people are motivated by titles. And yes, you have to like judging because you don't get much in the way of compensation. But I don't see anybody complaining about hating judging or not wanting to judge. I just see them saying they want their points and recognition that they earned and deserve. And I don't see anything wrong with that. All these guys are waiting for is for their points to be recorded and to be given an "official blessing". And when that doesn't happen after months and months, yes, they will become frustrated and be turned off to judging. And not because they don't enjoy judging, but because the program didn't follow its own rules and recognize them after they earned it. That's what I'm saying. Bill ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************