Subject: Digest for the period 2/9/2004 - 2/10/2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 01:00:01 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. "Ratio"nal thoughts? (Pete) 2. Judging points (Bill Wible) 3. Guidelines at Competitions and related (P. D. Waltman) 4. 9th annual South Shore Brewoff - competition announcement (McNally Geoffrey A NPRI) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:16:53 -0500 Subject: "Ratio"nal thoughts? Jay Say - The reason that lawyers outnumber BJCP judges a million to one is because very few lawyers have the good sense to become homebrewers....... Perhaps it comes from passing all those bars? Seriously, was just struck by the number of those who were comparing the BJCP test to the Bar Exam in their respective state(s) and feeling a tad floored. Many stated that the Bar (or other professional exams) do have set study classes / guides to help you prepare. We (in SE Mich.) are lucky to have Rex Halfpenny to run such classes for BJCP prep. The first time I took the exam, I didn't believe what I was up against, and scored miserably. The point is, I "could" have done as well the 1st time as I did the 2nd time, had I applied myself properly, and listened to those who knew. Silly me. I agree w/ Joe Formanek in that I'm unlikely to test again in the near future - I'm good where I'm at. I'm also seriously considering traveling several hours each way next month to a competition in Columbus. Not 'cause I need the points, but because it sounds fun. FUN is why we're here, no? And, note to Mike Dixon - I was under the impression that comp orgs WERE furnished w/ addresses of judges in state, and neighboring states. I get mailings (both the cheap, convenient, easy to file, electronic ones as well as the Other Kind) constantly inviting me to judge all over the place. Perhaps I'm just conveniently located, but I just assumed that EVERYone had at least ONE judging opportunity / month? Of course, if someone were to set up a "pre confirmed" judge sheet w/ 'merge fields' in the proper places, and make it available, more of us might have the cool pre-printed sheets at comps Tho that STILL relies on the durned judges to a) pre register and b) show UP at the comp Darn, can we DO this w/o relying on the Judges to hold up THEIR end? ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Wible Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:22:38 -0500 Subject: Judging points I've largely stayed out of this rant, but the one thing I wanted to take issue with was the recent comments by one or two people that "The points aren't important anyway." Maybe to some people aren't. But to the majority I think they are. There's a stigma attached to being the lowest level of anything in an organization, and most of us want to move from that kind of thing as quickly as we can. Not that I'm saying its bad to be a Recognized judge, we all start there. With any fraternity or organization, there are rankings, and those rankings do mean something to some people. It's a way to measure your progress. Moving from Recognized to Certified, for example, means you've judged a few competitions and have at least a slightly higher test score. I just think its improper for someone to say "The points don't matter and if you're only in it for that, get out." And I notice its higher level judges who either can't or don't want to advance who are saying that. Typical. As others said, you don't get much for judging. Some of the judges travel a long way and pay out of their own pockets for lodging, etc. I think the very least we can do is award them their points, which don't cost the BJCP anything. Bill ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: P. D. Waltman Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:44:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Guidelines at Competitions and related I don't think memorizing the numbers means much at all unless you know how to say what those numbers represent in a descriptive manner. Someone mostly writing the numbers does provide an example of depth of knowledge, but without descriptive qualities it does not show depth of comprehension or application. I caught the item that why do you need to know the style specifics if you get the guidelines at each competition. I have been at a competition where the style guidelines were specifically forbidden to the Best of Show judges. Even when requested the request was denied by the organizers. The BOS judging then was then completed using the recollection and memory of judges. I believe the organizers did it so the BOS would not take as long, but it probably had an opposite effect. Nevertheless, if it happenned once to me, it has probably happenned to others. On another subject, anyone know how one gets one's password for the BJCP website? I don't seem to know mine. Dennis Waltman __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: McNally Geoffrey A NPRI Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:48:13 -0500 Subject: 9th annual South Shore Brewoff - competition announcement The South Shore Brew Club is pleased to announce the 9th annual South Shore Brewoff. The competition will be held on Saturday, May 1st, 2004 at the Rock Bottom Restaurant and Brewery in Braintree, MA. Entry deadline is Friday, April 16th, 2004. We have registered with the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) and will be accepting entries in all 26 BJCP categories (including mead and cider). Competition entry packages containing entry forms, bottle labels, judge/steward registration form, and other related information will be available soon from our club website: http://members.aol.com/brewclub/ If you have any questions contact Geoffrey McNally, the competition organizer, at mcnallyga`at`npt.nuwc.navy.mil or 401-624-3953. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 2/9/2004 - 2/10/2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 01:00:01 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. "Ratio"nal thoughts? (Pete) 2. Judging points (Bill Wible) 3. Guidelines at Competitions and related (P. D. Waltman) 4. 9th annual South Shore Brewoff - competition announcement (McNally Geoffrey A NPRI) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:16:53 -0500 Subject: "Ratio"nal thoughts? Jay Say - The reason that lawyers outnumber BJCP judges a million to one is because very few lawyers have the good sense to become homebrewers....... Perhaps it comes from passing all those bars? Seriously, was just struck by the number of those who were comparing the BJCP test to the Bar Exam in their respective state(s) and feeling a tad floored. Many stated that the Bar (or other professional exams) do have set study classes / guides to help you prepare. We (in SE Mich.) are lucky to have Rex Halfpenny to run such classes for BJCP prep. The first time I took the exam, I didn't believe what I was up against, and scored miserably. The point is, I "could" have done as well the 1st time as I did the 2nd time, had I applied myself properly, and listened to those who knew. Silly me. I agree w/ Joe Formanek in that I'm unlikely to test again in the near future - I'm good where I'm at. I'm also seriously considering traveling several hours each way next month to a competition in Columbus. Not 'cause I need the points, but because it sounds fun. FUN is why we're here, no? And, note to Mike Dixon - I was under the impression that comp orgs WERE furnished w/ addresses of judges in state, and neighboring states. I get mailings (both the cheap, convenient, easy to file, electronic ones as well as the Other Kind) constantly inviting me to judge all over the place. Perhaps I'm just conveniently located, but I just assumed that EVERYone had at least ONE judging opportunity / month? Of course, if someone were to set up a "pre confirmed" judge sheet w/ 'merge fields' in the proper places, and make it available, more of us might have the cool pre-printed sheets at comps Tho that STILL relies on the durned judges to a) pre register and b) show UP at the comp Darn, can we DO this w/o relying on the Judges to hold up THEIR end? ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Wible Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:22:38 -0500 Subject: Judging points I've largely stayed out of this rant, but the one thing I wanted to take issue with was the recent comments by one or two people that "The points aren't important anyway." Maybe to some people aren't. But to the majority I think they are. There's a stigma attached to being the lowest level of anything in an organization, and most of us want to move from that kind of thing as quickly as we can. Not that I'm saying its bad to be a Recognized judge, we all start there. With any fraternity or organization, there are rankings, and those rankings do mean something to some people. It's a way to measure your progress. Moving from Recognized to Certified, for example, means you've judged a few competitions and have at least a slightly higher test score. I just think its improper for someone to say "The points don't matter and if you're only in it for that, get out." And I notice its higher level judges who either can't or don't want to advance who are saying that. Typical. As others said, you don't get much for judging. Some of the judges travel a long way and pay out of their own pockets for lodging, etc. I think the very least we can do is award them their points, which don't cost the BJCP anything. Bill ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: P. D. Waltman Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:44:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Guidelines at Competitions and related I don't think memorizing the numbers means much at all unless you know how to say what those numbers represent in a descriptive manner. Someone mostly writing the numbers does provide an example of depth of knowledge, but without descriptive qualities it does not show depth of comprehension or application. I caught the item that why do you need to know the style specifics if you get the guidelines at each competition. I have been at a competition where the style guidelines were specifically forbidden to the Best of Show judges. Even when requested the request was denied by the organizers. The BOS judging then was then completed using the recollection and memory of judges. I believe the organizers did it so the BOS would not take as long, but it probably had an opposite effect. Nevertheless, if it happenned once to me, it has probably happenned to others. On another subject, anyone know how one gets one's password for the BJCP website? I don't seem to know mine. Dennis Waltman __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: McNally Geoffrey A NPRI Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:48:13 -0500 Subject: 9th annual South Shore Brewoff - competition announcement The South Shore Brew Club is pleased to announce the 9th annual South Shore Brewoff. The competition will be held on Saturday, May 1st, 2004 at the Rock Bottom Restaurant and Brewery in Braintree, MA. Entry deadline is Friday, April 16th, 2004. We have registered with the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) and will be accepting entries in all 26 BJCP categories (including mead and cider). Competition entry packages containing entry forms, bottle labels, judge/steward registration form, and other related information will be available soon from our club website: http://members.aol.com/brewclub/ If you have any questions contact Geoffrey McNally, the competition organizer, at mcnallyga`at`npt.nuwc.navy.mil or 401-624-3953. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************