Subject: Digest for the period 1/24/2004 - 1/25/2004 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:00:51 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Exam Format (David Houseman) 2. Re: Digest for the period 1/23/2004 - 1/24/2004 (Madsymo`at`aol.com) 3. interspersed tastings... (BigWayne19) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:48:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Exam Format Denny asks "Is there a reason why the tastings have traditionally been interspersed with the essay questions?" George says "To interrupt the examinees essay writing with high-pressure tasting is not just a bizarre idea, it is cruel. Let the people get their essays written and then move on to the tasting." I'm sure there is some measure of "that's the way it's always been done" to the process, but there is one very good reason to intersperse the tastings with the essay questions. How much of the three hours should the proctor dedictate to the essay questions before forcing everyone to stop? And how much time should the proctor dedicate to the tasting portion of the exam? 10 minutes per beer? 12 minutes per beer? 15 minutes per beer? Some examinees may be able to spend far less time on the tasting of a beer while they need more time for the essay questions. By just having a single 3 hour time in which both the essay and tasting takes place interspersed, each examinee can choose how much time they want to spend between tasting and spending a bit more time on the essay questions. And for those finding they are getting writters cramp from all the writting, a break to rest you hand is often welcome . David Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Madsymo`at`aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:42:37 EST Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/23/2004 - 1/24/2004 In a message dated 1/24/2004 1:04:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, judge`at`synchro.com writes: From: Denny Conn Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:51:01 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Heresy (Jay Spies) When I took the test last Oct., we had someone retaking the tasting portion. So that he didn't have to sit through the test for interspersed tastings , we did the alternate format where you write the test first, then do the tasting. After doing it that way, I realized how lucky we were. Trying to do the tasting during the essay portion would certainly have broken up the flow of writing. I think it would be advantageous if this was the standard format. Is there a reason why the tastings have traditionally been interspersed with the essay questions? I proctored a number of exams in the mid-1990's. At the time I always interspersed the beer tastings with the essay portion. I discussed this with Pat Baker, then director (or whatever "official" title he held) of the BJCP. Our reasoning was that ultimately we were testing people's ability to taste beer AND communicate their understanding of the beer in front them, the "ideal" for the style and the technical aspects of the brewing process. All while slowly numbing one's skills with alcohol. We interspersed the tastings to make sure that test-takers would be up to that challenge. In addition, I always poured very large samples of the tasting beers. This was to make sure that would-be judges were capable of drinking only the amount necessary to fully evaluate the product. Somewhat sneaky, but not if you've ever had the displeasure of being paired with a "judge" who emptied every bottle into their liver. Lastly, I think that the time constraint is extremely important. Beer judges must be able to taste, evaluate and pontificate in about 10 minutes or competitions would never end. Holding test takers to a rigid time-constraint is a means of measuring this ability. The creators of the BJCP Examination included many levels of assessment for potential judges. As a teacher I try to do the same in testing my students. It would be interesting to know if the framers of the process consciously thought of these assessment tools. Keith Symonds Master Judge ps -- For what it's worth, I don't think that any candidate should be ever allowed to retake just part of the exam -- see above arguments. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BigWayne19 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:33:41 -0800 Subject: interspersed tastings... ------------- when i took the test, i thought it was perfectly normal to have to judge beers along with responding to the test questions. after all, when one is judging a flight, it's no more than a test interspersed with tastes of beer, no ? i've thought every judging was (if not rushed and awkward) interspersed with look, smell, taste, evaluate, scribble... and, judging by the many judges unsteadily walking down the hall after judging, i'd say that the acuity of their responses (to say nothing of their senses ) was highly impaired by the amount of alcohol and other cns active ingredients . . . in fact, i'll suggest here that "somebody" ought to evaluate a judge's output vs. time (as a surrogate for alcohol intake ) to see if the last beer judged (i've always been a proponent of having all eight beers in a flight on the table in a glass at once ) gets short shrift . . . Big When I took the test last Oct., we had someone retaking the tasting portion. So that he didn't have to sit through the test for interspersed tastings , we did the alternate format where you write the test first, then do the tasting. After doing it that way, I realized how lucky we were. Trying to do the tasting during the essay portion would certainly have broken up the flow of writing. I think it would be advantageous if this was the standard format. Is there a reason why the tastings have traditionally been interspersed with the essay questions? --------------------->Denny At 01:03 AM 1/22/04 -0500, Jay Spies wrote: >Additionally, the tasting portion of the exam felt rushed and awkward >because it was interspersed at 4 different points throughout the exam. >Stop writing, look, smell, taste, evaluate, scribble, start writing >again. I have never seen judging conducted this way. Everyone who has >judged or seen judging knows there's not that kind of time pressure. >How about having the full exam and then taste the beers afterward >instead of having to rush? Having to interrupt your train of thought to >taste a beer, and then get back into test mode is really distracting, >not to mention that it likely detracts from the quality of my tasting >answers because I'm always minding my internal time clock. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 1/24/2004 - 1/25/2004 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:00:51 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Exam Format (David Houseman) 2. Re: Digest for the period 1/23/2004 - 1/24/2004 (Madsymo`at`aol.com) 3. interspersed tastings... (BigWayne19) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:48:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Exam Format Denny asks "Is there a reason why the tastings have traditionally been interspersed with the essay questions?" George says "To interrupt the examinees essay writing with high-pressure tasting is not just a bizarre idea, it is cruel. Let the people get their essays written and then move on to the tasting." I'm sure there is some measure of "that's the way it's always been done" to the process, but there is one very good reason to intersperse the tastings with the essay questions. How much of the three hours should the proctor dedictate to the essay questions before forcing everyone to stop? And how much time should the proctor dedicate to the tasting portion of the exam? 10 minutes per beer? 12 minutes per beer? 15 minutes per beer? Some examinees may be able to spend far less time on the tasting of a beer while they need more time for the essay questions. By just having a single 3 hour time in which both the essay and tasting takes place interspersed, each examinee can choose how much time they want to spend between tasting and spending a bit more time on the essay questions. And for those finding they are getting writters cramp from all the writting, a break to rest you hand is often welcome . David Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Madsymo`at`aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:42:37 EST Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/23/2004 - 1/24/2004 In a message dated 1/24/2004 1:04:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, judge`at`synchro.com writes: From: Denny Conn Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:51:01 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Heresy (Jay Spies) When I took the test last Oct., we had someone retaking the tasting portion. So that he didn't have to sit through the test for interspersed tastings , we did the alternate format where you write the test first, then do the tasting. After doing it that way, I realized how lucky we were. Trying to do the tasting during the essay portion would certainly have broken up the flow of writing. I think it would be advantageous if this was the standard format. Is there a reason why the tastings have traditionally been interspersed with the essay questions? I proctored a number of exams in the mid-1990's. At the time I always interspersed the beer tastings with the essay portion. I discussed this with Pat Baker, then director (or whatever "official" title he held) of the BJCP. Our reasoning was that ultimately we were testing people's ability to taste beer AND communicate their understanding of the beer in front them, the "ideal" for the style and the technical aspects of the brewing process. All while slowly numbing one's skills with alcohol. We interspersed the tastings to make sure that test-takers would be up to that challenge. In addition, I always poured very large samples of the tasting beers. This was to make sure that would-be judges were capable of drinking only the amount necessary to fully evaluate the product. Somewhat sneaky, but not if you've ever had the displeasure of being paired with a "judge" who emptied every bottle into their liver. Lastly, I think that the time constraint is extremely important. Beer judges must be able to taste, evaluate and pontificate in about 10 minutes or competitions would never end. Holding test takers to a rigid time-constraint is a means of measuring this ability. The creators of the BJCP Examination included many levels of assessment for potential judges. As a teacher I try to do the same in testing my students. It would be interesting to know if the framers of the process consciously thought of these assessment tools. Keith Symonds Master Judge ps -- For what it's worth, I don't think that any candidate should be ever allowed to retake just part of the exam -- see above arguments. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BigWayne19 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:33:41 -0800 Subject: interspersed tastings... ------------- when i took the test, i thought it was perfectly normal to have to judge beers along with responding to the test questions. after all, when one is judging a flight, it's no more than a test interspersed with tastes of beer, no ? i've thought every judging was (if not rushed and awkward) interspersed with look, smell, taste, evaluate, scribble... and, judging by the many judges unsteadily walking down the hall after judging, i'd say that the acuity of their responses (to say nothing of their senses ) was highly impaired by the amount of alcohol and other cns active ingredients . . . in fact, i'll suggest here that "somebody" ought to evaluate a judge's output vs. time (as a surrogate for alcohol intake ) to see if the last beer judged (i've always been a proponent of having all eight beers in a flight on the table in a glass at once ) gets short shrift . . . Big When I took the test last Oct., we had someone retaking the tasting portion. So that he didn't have to sit through the test for interspersed tastings , we did the alternate format where you write the test first, then do the tasting. After doing it that way, I realized how lucky we were. Trying to do the tasting during the essay portion would certainly have broken up the flow of writing. I think it would be advantageous if this was the standard format. Is there a reason why the tastings have traditionally been interspersed with the essay questions? --------------------->Denny At 01:03 AM 1/22/04 -0500, Jay Spies wrote: >Additionally, the tasting portion of the exam felt rushed and awkward >because it was interspersed at 4 different points throughout the exam. >Stop writing, look, smell, taste, evaluate, scribble, start writing >again. I have never seen judging conducted this way. Everyone who has >judged or seen judging knows there's not that kind of time pressure. >How about having the full exam and then taste the beers afterward >instead of having to rush? Having to interrupt your train of thought to >taste a beer, and then get back into test mode is really distracting, >not to mention that it likely detracts from the quality of my tasting >answers because I'm always minding my internal time clock. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************