Subject: Digest for the period 1/11/2004 - 1/12/2004 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:03:39 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Smoking and Judging, antibiotics (Free State Brewing Co.) 2. Smoking and Judging (Pete) 3. AFC Homebrew Competition (hollen`at`woodsprite.com) 4. Smoking and Judging (Ted Hausotter) 5. RE: "Standard" contest databases... (Alan Hord) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Free State Brewing Co. Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:40:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Smoking and Judging, antibiotics When I took the Siebel Sensory Evaluation Course several years ago, then sensory director Ilse Shelton suggested that we should not disqualify taste panel members because they were smokers. However, she also suggested a need to thoroughly retrain those panelists if they quit smoking because there would be a significant change in perceptions of flavors and aromas. Although I am not aware of documentation on the subject, Ilse had several anecdotal cases to support her belief and a long and respected background in the field. On another interesting subject, I have long held the belief that certain antibiotics screwed up my palate. A recent course of antibiotics came directly from my Dr. and included the full physicians information on the drug (Bioxin, one of many drugs in the erythromycin family of antibiotics). The enclosed information referred to "taste perversion" as a known side effect among about 6% of the population. Sure enough, at about the time that the antibiotic hit its full concentration after about 2 days, beers which I had tasted a couple of days before and had no issues with began to taste really crappy. Bitterness was greatly enhanced and there was a strong harsh edge to the beers. Something to think about. Cheers, Steve *************************************************************** Steve Bradt sb`at`freestatebrewing.com Free State Brewing Co. http://www.freestatebrewing.com 636 Massachusetts St. Phone (785) 843-4555 Lawrence, KS 66044 FAX (785) 843-2543 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:01:38 -0500 Subject: Smoking and Judging Well, you asked for links to articles about smoking and judging, which I don't have. But, as a recent smoker and very experienced judge, I'm willing to share my experience. As for being scientific as opposed to "agenda based", sorry, that's ALL there is. Smoking is bad. Period. Anyone who tells you otherwise is blowing up your butt, and probably has a bridge to sell you. Just HOW bad, certainly, can vary from person to person, and quantity as well as quality of smoke. A single cigar can easily ruin a competition. Trying to evaluate beer in a lounge where cigars are regularly smoked is difficult, even if there are not any activly blazing away. The residuals greatly influence my sense of smell, making it that much more difficult for me to pick up on 'threshold' aromas like acetylaldehyde, or anything vegetal. Phenols may be either masked or enhanced, neither of which promotes a 'fair' evaluation. And that's just the residuals in the room. I have found that it's the subtle things that go first - the appreciation of a delecate hop balance in the nose, the smell of chocolate malt layered with roast and biscuit (as opposed to just smelling 'grain-y') the vaporous esters and phenols that we so anxiously try to capture in the first moments after a pour. Next, I tend to lose the functioning of the sweet/sour taste buds, so nearly everything tastes too hoppy and unbalanced for style. The smoke can also imitate the 'wet paper/cardboard' qualities assocoated with oxidation, leading to a false perception that a beer is old, or stale. Let's not forget the very real secondhand effects - walking into a judging venue with smoke dripping from your jacket / clothes / breath can easily effect fellow judges just as much as wearing perfume. Only this is a perfume which a) stinks and b) many people find physically irritating. Judging is difficult enough without having to contend with weepy eyes and runny nose brought on by someones stench of perfume. Or smoke. Or (horrors!) both! Now, far be it for me to say that no smokers should be allowed to judge, but refraining for at LEAST 30 min prior to a competition starting is only polite to the entrants, as well as your fellow judges. Just MY thoughts Pete Bussa ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hollen`at`woodsprite.com Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 19:15:49 -0800 Subject: AFC Homebrew Competition America's Finest City Homebrew Competition Call for Entries and Second Call forJudges It is my pleasure to announce online registration is now open for the "America's Finest City Homebrew Competition" in San Diego, California. Entries will be accepted February 9th through 20th and judging will be held February 27th and 28th. Many of those judging this competition will be judging western region first round nationals as well. This is a good competition to use as a guide for placement of those hard to define brews. In the interest of saving bandwidth, here's the url: http://www.quaff.org/afc2004/AFCHBC.html Questions or problems with the site? Please contact: zuvaruvi at cox.net Thanks and Good Luck! Chad Stevens Judge Coordinator QUAFF San Diego ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ted Hausotter Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:06:43 -0800 Subject: Smoking and Judging One of our fellow judges out here in Oregon smokes while judging. Naturally he leaves the room. He also abuses his taste buds with coffee and bloody marys in the morning. He is a great judge, able to pick flaws out of beer like a true pro and I have grudgingly grown to respect his opinion. My conclusion is that the loss of tasting ability is uniquely based and practice can make up for some of the loss. What I mean is that a flavor may not be detected but perceived by how it effects other flavors. Sorry Ed, no science here. Ted Hausotter Baker City, OR >I'm looking for an article or two on how smoking affects a persons ability >to detect flavors (in beer if possible). I would rather have ones that are >based on a scientific study and not based on an agenda. Any one have a >link to such information. > >thanks, >Ed Tash >********************************************************************** >* JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * >* Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * >* Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * >********************************************************************** > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Hord Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:58:19 -0800 Subject: RE: "Standard" contest databases... RE: "Standard" contest databases... Color-coding: I think the idea is of exceptional merit. Perhaps a Color Wizard is in order. Granted - there are a limited spectrum of useable colors in less-than preferred lighting conditions. Thankfully the Celts developed tartans! Thus, it IS conceivable to have alternatives other than just plain-ol' simple colors :o) Linux: I am unsure I understand the implications of the statement; the online service simple exists to facilitate the harvest of registrations; it is not for sale, nor is a fee charged, nor is it bundled for redistribution, nor is it designed to generate revenue. The proposed client administrative application would connect to the online servers and/or will act as a standalone administrative solution. It will be shareware. It is designed to run on MS XP Pro or MS Servers and leverage the built-in IIS functionality. It is a custom and robust interactive business application. The Registration Wizards are compatible with mainstream browsers; there are no ActiveX controls or Java applets. The Administration client however requires more granularity and interface management, thus it was developed on a known constant: Internet Explorer. Please forgive; perhaps in V2 we could adapt it to support something else. However the choices are few with limited resources and it is hoped that the members of this list understand this is not a ubiquitous solution, but one that affords a large common effort to streamline competitions. Exporting: Most reports are exportable with a user-defined text format, HOWEVER ~ we also ouput XML on certain reports. The goal is to be as paperless as possible for everyone involved. I believe this is an equitable provision that will serve the needs of the many. We hope this is acceptable :o) Cheers to one and all! Alan Hord, N.N.S. http://www.HordsOfFun.Com/hbc/ ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 1/11/2004 - 1/12/2004 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:03:39 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Smoking and Judging, antibiotics (Free State Brewing Co.) 2. Smoking and Judging (Pete) 3. AFC Homebrew Competition (hollen`at`woodsprite.com) 4. Smoking and Judging (Ted Hausotter) 5. RE: "Standard" contest databases... (Alan Hord) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Free State Brewing Co. Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:40:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Smoking and Judging, antibiotics When I took the Siebel Sensory Evaluation Course several years ago, then sensory director Ilse Shelton suggested that we should not disqualify taste panel members because they were smokers. However, she also suggested a need to thoroughly retrain those panelists if they quit smoking because there would be a significant change in perceptions of flavors and aromas. Although I am not aware of documentation on the subject, Ilse had several anecdotal cases to support her belief and a long and respected background in the field. On another interesting subject, I have long held the belief that certain antibiotics screwed up my palate. A recent course of antibiotics came directly from my Dr. and included the full physicians information on the drug (Bioxin, one of many drugs in the erythromycin family of antibiotics). The enclosed information referred to "taste perversion" as a known side effect among about 6% of the population. Sure enough, at about the time that the antibiotic hit its full concentration after about 2 days, beers which I had tasted a couple of days before and had no issues with began to taste really crappy. Bitterness was greatly enhanced and there was a strong harsh edge to the beers. Something to think about. Cheers, Steve *************************************************************** Steve Bradt sb`at`freestatebrewing.com Free State Brewing Co. http://www.freestatebrewing.com 636 Massachusetts St. Phone (785) 843-4555 Lawrence, KS 66044 FAX (785) 843-2543 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:01:38 -0500 Subject: Smoking and Judging Well, you asked for links to articles about smoking and judging, which I don't have. But, as a recent smoker and very experienced judge, I'm willing to share my experience. As for being scientific as opposed to "agenda based", sorry, that's ALL there is. Smoking is bad. Period. Anyone who tells you otherwise is blowing up your butt, and probably has a bridge to sell you. Just HOW bad, certainly, can vary from person to person, and quantity as well as quality of smoke. A single cigar can easily ruin a competition. Trying to evaluate beer in a lounge where cigars are regularly smoked is difficult, even if there are not any activly blazing away. The residuals greatly influence my sense of smell, making it that much more difficult for me to pick up on 'threshold' aromas like acetylaldehyde, or anything vegetal. Phenols may be either masked or enhanced, neither of which promotes a 'fair' evaluation. And that's just the residuals in the room. I have found that it's the subtle things that go first - the appreciation of a delecate hop balance in the nose, the smell of chocolate malt layered with roast and biscuit (as opposed to just smelling 'grain-y') the vaporous esters and phenols that we so anxiously try to capture in the first moments after a pour. Next, I tend to lose the functioning of the sweet/sour taste buds, so nearly everything tastes too hoppy and unbalanced for style. The smoke can also imitate the 'wet paper/cardboard' qualities assocoated with oxidation, leading to a false perception that a beer is old, or stale. Let's not forget the very real secondhand effects - walking into a judging venue with smoke dripping from your jacket / clothes / breath can easily effect fellow judges just as much as wearing perfume. Only this is a perfume which a) stinks and b) many people find physically irritating. Judging is difficult enough without having to contend with weepy eyes and runny nose brought on by someones stench of perfume. Or smoke. Or (horrors!) both! Now, far be it for me to say that no smokers should be allowed to judge, but refraining for at LEAST 30 min prior to a competition starting is only polite to the entrants, as well as your fellow judges. Just MY thoughts Pete Bussa ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hollen`at`woodsprite.com Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 19:15:49 -0800 Subject: AFC Homebrew Competition America's Finest City Homebrew Competition Call for Entries and Second Call forJudges It is my pleasure to announce online registration is now open for the "America's Finest City Homebrew Competition" in San Diego, California. Entries will be accepted February 9th through 20th and judging will be held February 27th and 28th. Many of those judging this competition will be judging western region first round nationals as well. This is a good competition to use as a guide for placement of those hard to define brews. In the interest of saving bandwidth, here's the url: http://www.quaff.org/afc2004/AFCHBC.html Questions or problems with the site? Please contact: zuvaruvi at cox.net Thanks and Good Luck! Chad Stevens Judge Coordinator QUAFF San Diego ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ted Hausotter Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:06:43 -0800 Subject: Smoking and Judging One of our fellow judges out here in Oregon smokes while judging. Naturally he leaves the room. He also abuses his taste buds with coffee and bloody marys in the morning. He is a great judge, able to pick flaws out of beer like a true pro and I have grudgingly grown to respect his opinion. My conclusion is that the loss of tasting ability is uniquely based and practice can make up for some of the loss. What I mean is that a flavor may not be detected but perceived by how it effects other flavors. Sorry Ed, no science here. Ted Hausotter Baker City, OR >I'm looking for an article or two on how smoking affects a persons ability >to detect flavors (in beer if possible). I would rather have ones that are >based on a scientific study and not based on an agenda. Any one have a >link to such information. > >thanks, >Ed Tash >********************************************************************** >* JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * >* Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * >* Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * >********************************************************************** > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Hord Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:58:19 -0800 Subject: RE: "Standard" contest databases... RE: "Standard" contest databases... Color-coding: I think the idea is of exceptional merit. Perhaps a Color Wizard is in order. Granted - there are a limited spectrum of useable colors in less-than preferred lighting conditions. Thankfully the Celts developed tartans! Thus, it IS conceivable to have alternatives other than just plain-ol' simple colors :o) Linux: I am unsure I understand the implications of the statement; the online service simple exists to facilitate the harvest of registrations; it is not for sale, nor is a fee charged, nor is it bundled for redistribution, nor is it designed to generate revenue. The proposed client administrative application would connect to the online servers and/or will act as a standalone administrative solution. It will be shareware. It is designed to run on MS XP Pro or MS Servers and leverage the built-in IIS functionality. It is a custom and robust interactive business application. The Registration Wizards are compatible with mainstream browsers; there are no ActiveX controls or Java applets. The Administration client however requires more granularity and interface management, thus it was developed on a known constant: Internet Explorer. Please forgive; perhaps in V2 we could adapt it to support something else. However the choices are few with limited resources and it is hoped that the members of this list understand this is not a ubiquitous solution, but one that affords a large common effort to streamline competitions. Exporting: Most reports are exportable with a user-defined text format, HOWEVER ~ we also ouput XML on certain reports. The goal is to be as paperless as possible for everyone involved. I believe this is an equitable provision that will serve the needs of the many. We hope this is acceptable :o) Cheers to one and all! Alan Hord, N.N.S. http://www.HordsOfFun.Com/hbc/ ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************