Subject: Digest for the period 11/15/2003 - 11/16/2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 01:02:27 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. glass (not paper) or plastic (Bob Paolino) 2. RE: Glass Vs Plastic (Alan Hord) 3. Re: Glass Vs Plastic (Joe Preiser) 4. RE: Glass Vs Plastic (Mike Bennett) 5. Re: Glass Vs Plastic (David Houseman) 6. Re: Digest for the period 11/14/2003 - 11/15/2003 (Mark Tumarkin) 7. Glass Vs Plastic (Mike Dixon) 8. Glass vs Plastic (Pete) 9. glass vs plastic (Spencer W. Thomas) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Paolino Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:35:56 -0500 Subject: glass (not paper) or plastic please forgive me. I recently ran a porter competition with only 10 entries. My judges used plastic cups to sample the beer in. After the competition, I asked the judges for suggestions, one of them suggested using glass sampling glasses, instead of plastic. Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I am not worried about the cost or clean up. --- When you do a competition in a brewpub, it can be easy to do with all those sampler glasses they have :-) Yes, I have judged with glass, and not just at brewpubs--one competition I once travelled to was not at a brewpub, but had a supply of fairly generic/cheap wine glasses. Each judge had a few glasses (not one for every beer) and we just had to rinse our own, not a big problem. Certain plastic cups seem to inhibit head formation/retention. If you use plastic, go for the hard plastic ones rather than the softer/more flexible ones. It may not be necessary with all types of plastic, but it's a pretty good practise to air out several cups in advance rather than pulling them off the stack immediately before pouring. When using sampler glasses in a brewpub, one thing to watch out for if brewpub staff are washing them for you is the sanitiser used for the glasses. When they don't have time to dry completely, you can end up with a big whiff of sanitiser...not good :-( . When we discovered this was happening at one event, we had a couple stewards do plain water rinses as the glasses came out of the washer. Glass is a very nice luxury to have for judging--do it if at all practical, but plastic doesn't have to be bad. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino >From the Department of Military Intelligence and Jumbo Shrimp: Sign seen on a recently poisoned lawn: TruGreen/ChemLawn ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X against HTML e-mail: / \ Friends don't send friends HTML-bloated messages! A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Hord Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:38:00 -0800 Subject: RE: Glass Vs Plastic Hello Ed and welcome to the JudgeNet :o) Glass is always preferable over plastic for several reasons: * Non-permeable * Clear * Inert * Odor-free if washed correctly * Reusable :o) I'm a glass kinda guy! Our Club bought glassware for our competitions just to get away from plastic. We sourced out 7 ounce little sampler glasses that are just about right for the job. I think you'll discover that after the second competition the glassware will pay for itself. Of course that being said the best glass is one that matches the beer, but I digress :o) Cheers and success on your next event! Alan Hord, Seattle region ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Preiser Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:14:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Glass Vs Plastic Given the correct type of plastic (clear w/ no plastic smell), I've noticed no problems with judging in plastic vs. glass. Only one competition I judge uses glass instead of plastic on a regular basis. It's in Hawai'i and I think the reason for glass over plastic is a combination of economic, ecological, and (possibly believed) taste factors. However, it does slow down judging as the limited number of glasses are washed between uses. As an organizer/judge coordinator for my region's AHA NHC 1st Round and our club's annual HBC, it would be a logistical nightmare to stock and wash glasses for the 500-600 entries we get for NHC and the 130 entries we get for our local competition. Smaller competitions wouldn't necessarily have this issue. Joe > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: TashFam`at`aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:01:23 -0500 > Subject: Glass Vs Plastic > > > I'm new to judge net, so if this subject has been discussed recently, > please forgive me. I recently ran a porter competition with only 10 > entries. My judges used plastic cups to sample the beer in. After > the competition, I asked the judges for suggestions, one of them > suggested using glass sampling glasses, instead of plastic. Has > anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think > it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and > want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I am not > worried about the cost or clean up. > > thanks Ed Tash ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Bennett Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:59:40 -0800 Subject: RE: Glass Vs Plastic > TashFam`at`aol.com wrote: > > Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and > do you think it made any difference? Yes, I have. Here in Oregon, just about every competition uses plastic cups. However the Oregon State Fair uses white wine glasses and I have to say... 1. They are far better at concentrating and holding the aromas. 2. You can also swirl the beer in the glass easier. 3. It's easier to judge the clarity of the beer. 4. It's easier to judge head retention and lacing characteristics. 5. If you're anal retentive and use color transparencies, it's harder to judge color. 6. Wine glasses for a large competition might be cost-prohibitive, but can be rented from party/wedding rental companies. In my opinion, the benefits of using glass is clear. I only wish more competitions would use them. -- Mike Bennett Head Brewer, Southside Speakeasy, Salem OR Recognized BJCP Beer Judge [1958, 287.1] Apparent Rennerian mjbefn.org ....Give a man a beer, he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.... ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:02:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Glass Vs Plastic Ed, I run and judged in competitions that used glasses instead of plastic cups. Glass works fine if you have plenty of them and don't have to wash the glasses during the competitions. Hot glasses from the washer don't work well in judging. And tall glasses are the optimal form factor to get your nose into. IMHO glass works but with no advantages over good, clear, rigid, disposable plastic cups. A clear case of simpler is better. Even if my Scottish blood hates to see anything useful discarded ;-)) Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Tumarkin Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:47:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 11/14/2003 - 11/15/2003 Ed wrote: "I'm new to judge net, so if this subject has been discussed recently, please forgive me. I recently ran a porter competition with only 10 entries. My judges used plastic cups to sample the beer in. After the competition, I asked the judges for suggestions, one of them suggested using glass sampling glasses, instead of plastic. Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I am not worried about the cost or clean up." The only competition I've judged in that uses real glass is the Meadlennium. Meadlennium is one of the few all-mead comps and is held by the Central Florida Home Brewers in Feb. I'm looking forward to going down to judge there again next Feb. One of the reasons is the use of wine glasses. They have access to 'many' cases, owned by a generous local wine club. Real glass does make a difference - the wine glasses collects & concentrate aromas better than an open shaped tasting glass, glass is much better than plastic for evaluating legs & meniscus (more important for mead than beer), and it just 'feels' better to evaluate out of a real glass. But there are some definite issues with using glass. You say you're not worried about cost or clean up, but these are real issues in using glass. Your comp is very small so the impact of these concerns is minimal. However, for most competitions, even small to medium sized comps, the number of glasses required makes the cost prohibitive. Cleaning is also an issue. Can you say 'beer clean'? With the wine club, the glasses are cleaned by whoever uses them - with varying methods & results. Not only do you have the problem with the affect on head, but they can still hold aromas from various dish-washing soaps, etc. We were fortunate enough to be able to use these glasses for a small Thomas Hardy vertical tasting recently and the aromas on some of the glasses was definately a negative issue. It varied a lot depending on how they were cleaned. We recleaned some of them before using. By the way, when I say small TH tasting; it was small in the number of participants (4), not in the number of vintage years sampled. So even with four of us, we needed a lot of glasses to be able to keep some of each in front of us to see what happened as they warmed & opened over time. We sampled the following: 1) 1972 Courage Anniversary Ale 2) 1998 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 3) 1996 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 4) 1994 Thomas Hardy -nip bottle 5) 1993 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 6) 1992 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 7) 1990 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 8) 1989 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 9) 1986 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 10) 1979 Thomas Hardy - nip bottle 11) 1978 Thomas Hardy - nip bottle 12) 1975 Thomas Hardy - nip bottle 13) 1968 Thomas Hardy - First year, nip bottle 14) 1983 Thomas Hardy Royal Ale 15) 1988 J.W. Lee's Harvest Ale An incredible afternoon, but that's another story. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:43:12 -0500 Subject: Glass Vs Plastic > From: Ed Tash > Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I have only judged at a single competition where they used actual glasses. I did not particularly care for that setup since the glasses were extremely small. I know someone had a monumental task afterward cleaning up the glasses, and if I am not mistaken near the end they had to switch to plastic glasses instead. If you go with plastic, I have judged in comps where the cups ruined head retention and others where the plastic was not clear. The best plastic cups I have found are 7ounce made by Comet/Sweetheart and have part number CM-T7T. They are crystal clear, they do not affect head, and the cost is about $38 per 500 cups (they are not the cheapest thing on the planet). They do break easily if dropped, but don't crush in your hand. I would think some of the bigger competitions would have other suggestions about cups. Cheers, Mike Dixon Wake Forest, NC ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:42:32 -0500 Subject: Glass vs Plastic The advantages of Plastic are that it's cheap, stackable, nearly unbreakable, disposable, and available in a very good size/shape for judging. The downsides are that clarity can be an issue, the cups can smell "plasticy" causing the beer to falsly register as "phenolic" The sole advantage of glass is that it (probably) doesn't have an odor associated with it - unless it was washed w/ soap that didn't rinse completely, rinsed with a chlorine sanitizer, or not properly cleaned at all. All of these can affect color, clarity, head, aroma, flavor, etc. So, assuming you have perfect glassware (and that includes perfect size and shape, as well - it's tough to judge properly using 10oz bar shells) "all" you have to deal with is the logistics. YOU may not have to worry about cost or clean-up, but SOME one does. For an event with 10 entries and three judges you will need a minimum of 30 glasses (or plastic cups - odd how you wouldn't call them plastic glasses, or glass cups... but I digress) which is a more of lees a single sleeve on the one hand, and an entire table full of glassware on the other. Not an insurmountable issue, certainly, but already becoming AN issue. If your event were any larger, the problem would get exponentailly worse as you then have 'mini bos' and 'bos' rounds to consolidate flights and pick winners. Large competitions, such as AHA Nationals, regularly use thousands of cups. The logistics of glass would be just insane. Even if you were washing and reusing the glassware, you would have all the issues mentionend above, plus heat, and you STILL have the nightmare of getting them to and from the dishwasher and the judges. So I guess MY arrogant opinion is that if you can convieniently provide appropriately sized, shaped, clean, clear, odor free glassware, there's nothing wrong with it. But a quality clear, clean, low-odor plastic cup is perfectly acceptable, and much easier to deal with, as a rule. Pete Bussa ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:45:43 -0500 Subject: glass vs plastic Both have their benefits and their drawbacks. Glass has no odor, assuming it's properly cleaned. You can reuse glass, even within the same competition, so there's less risk of running out of glasses. It doesn't fill up the landfills. On the other hand, glass is more expensive, the glasses have to be stored between competitions, detergent residue can kill the head or add aromas, and glasses are typically smoother than plastic and don't generate as much head. Plastic is cheap and disposable, so is a good choice when dish-washing facilities are not available. The hard molded plastic cups generally have very little odor and some nice sharp edges that help to generate and keep the head on the small judging sample. But cheap plastic glasses can have a very distinctive odor that makes it difficult to judge the beer well. Our club bought 4 cases of judging glasses about a decade ago, and we're still using them. On balance, I think I prefer glass. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 11/15/2003 - 11/16/2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 01:02:27 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. glass (not paper) or plastic (Bob Paolino) 2. RE: Glass Vs Plastic (Alan Hord) 3. Re: Glass Vs Plastic (Joe Preiser) 4. RE: Glass Vs Plastic (Mike Bennett) 5. Re: Glass Vs Plastic (David Houseman) 6. Re: Digest for the period 11/14/2003 - 11/15/2003 (Mark Tumarkin) 7. Glass Vs Plastic (Mike Dixon) 8. Glass vs Plastic (Pete) 9. glass vs plastic (Spencer W. Thomas) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Paolino Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:35:56 -0500 Subject: glass (not paper) or plastic please forgive me. I recently ran a porter competition with only 10 entries. My judges used plastic cups to sample the beer in. After the competition, I asked the judges for suggestions, one of them suggested using glass sampling glasses, instead of plastic. Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I am not worried about the cost or clean up. --- When you do a competition in a brewpub, it can be easy to do with all those sampler glasses they have :-) Yes, I have judged with glass, and not just at brewpubs--one competition I once travelled to was not at a brewpub, but had a supply of fairly generic/cheap wine glasses. Each judge had a few glasses (not one for every beer) and we just had to rinse our own, not a big problem. Certain plastic cups seem to inhibit head formation/retention. If you use plastic, go for the hard plastic ones rather than the softer/more flexible ones. It may not be necessary with all types of plastic, but it's a pretty good practise to air out several cups in advance rather than pulling them off the stack immediately before pouring. When using sampler glasses in a brewpub, one thing to watch out for if brewpub staff are washing them for you is the sanitiser used for the glasses. When they don't have time to dry completely, you can end up with a big whiff of sanitiser...not good :-( . When we discovered this was happening at one event, we had a couple stewards do plain water rinses as the glasses came out of the washer. Glass is a very nice luxury to have for judging--do it if at all practical, but plastic doesn't have to be bad. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino >From the Department of Military Intelligence and Jumbo Shrimp: Sign seen on a recently poisoned lawn: TruGreen/ChemLawn ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X against HTML e-mail: / \ Friends don't send friends HTML-bloated messages! A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Hord Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:38:00 -0800 Subject: RE: Glass Vs Plastic Hello Ed and welcome to the JudgeNet :o) Glass is always preferable over plastic for several reasons: * Non-permeable * Clear * Inert * Odor-free if washed correctly * Reusable :o) I'm a glass kinda guy! Our Club bought glassware for our competitions just to get away from plastic. We sourced out 7 ounce little sampler glasses that are just about right for the job. I think you'll discover that after the second competition the glassware will pay for itself. Of course that being said the best glass is one that matches the beer, but I digress :o) Cheers and success on your next event! Alan Hord, Seattle region ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Preiser Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:14:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Glass Vs Plastic Given the correct type of plastic (clear w/ no plastic smell), I've noticed no problems with judging in plastic vs. glass. Only one competition I judge uses glass instead of plastic on a regular basis. It's in Hawai'i and I think the reason for glass over plastic is a combination of economic, ecological, and (possibly believed) taste factors. However, it does slow down judging as the limited number of glasses are washed between uses. As an organizer/judge coordinator for my region's AHA NHC 1st Round and our club's annual HBC, it would be a logistical nightmare to stock and wash glasses for the 500-600 entries we get for NHC and the 130 entries we get for our local competition. Smaller competitions wouldn't necessarily have this issue. Joe > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: TashFam`at`aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:01:23 -0500 > Subject: Glass Vs Plastic > > > I'm new to judge net, so if this subject has been discussed recently, > please forgive me. I recently ran a porter competition with only 10 > entries. My judges used plastic cups to sample the beer in. After > the competition, I asked the judges for suggestions, one of them > suggested using glass sampling glasses, instead of plastic. Has > anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think > it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and > want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I am not > worried about the cost or clean up. > > thanks Ed Tash ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Bennett Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:59:40 -0800 Subject: RE: Glass Vs Plastic > TashFam`at`aol.com wrote: > > Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and > do you think it made any difference? Yes, I have. Here in Oregon, just about every competition uses plastic cups. However the Oregon State Fair uses white wine glasses and I have to say... 1. They are far better at concentrating and holding the aromas. 2. You can also swirl the beer in the glass easier. 3. It's easier to judge the clarity of the beer. 4. It's easier to judge head retention and lacing characteristics. 5. If you're anal retentive and use color transparencies, it's harder to judge color. 6. Wine glasses for a large competition might be cost-prohibitive, but can be rented from party/wedding rental companies. In my opinion, the benefits of using glass is clear. I only wish more competitions would use them. -- Mike Bennett Head Brewer, Southside Speakeasy, Salem OR Recognized BJCP Beer Judge [1958, 287.1] Apparent Rennerian mjbefn.org ....Give a man a beer, he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime.... ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:02:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Glass Vs Plastic Ed, I run and judged in competitions that used glasses instead of plastic cups. Glass works fine if you have plenty of them and don't have to wash the glasses during the competitions. Hot glasses from the washer don't work well in judging. And tall glasses are the optimal form factor to get your nose into. IMHO glass works but with no advantages over good, clear, rigid, disposable plastic cups. A clear case of simpler is better. Even if my Scottish blood hates to see anything useful discarded ;-)) Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Tumarkin Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:47:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 11/14/2003 - 11/15/2003 Ed wrote: "I'm new to judge net, so if this subject has been discussed recently, please forgive me. I recently ran a porter competition with only 10 entries. My judges used plastic cups to sample the beer in. After the competition, I asked the judges for suggestions, one of them suggested using glass sampling glasses, instead of plastic. Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I am not worried about the cost or clean up." The only competition I've judged in that uses real glass is the Meadlennium. Meadlennium is one of the few all-mead comps and is held by the Central Florida Home Brewers in Feb. I'm looking forward to going down to judge there again next Feb. One of the reasons is the use of wine glasses. They have access to 'many' cases, owned by a generous local wine club. Real glass does make a difference - the wine glasses collects & concentrate aromas better than an open shaped tasting glass, glass is much better than plastic for evaluating legs & meniscus (more important for mead than beer), and it just 'feels' better to evaluate out of a real glass. But there are some definite issues with using glass. You say you're not worried about cost or clean up, but these are real issues in using glass. Your comp is very small so the impact of these concerns is minimal. However, for most competitions, even small to medium sized comps, the number of glasses required makes the cost prohibitive. Cleaning is also an issue. Can you say 'beer clean'? With the wine club, the glasses are cleaned by whoever uses them - with varying methods & results. Not only do you have the problem with the affect on head, but they can still hold aromas from various dish-washing soaps, etc. We were fortunate enough to be able to use these glasses for a small Thomas Hardy vertical tasting recently and the aromas on some of the glasses was definately a negative issue. It varied a lot depending on how they were cleaned. We recleaned some of them before using. By the way, when I say small TH tasting; it was small in the number of participants (4), not in the number of vintage years sampled. So even with four of us, we needed a lot of glasses to be able to keep some of each in front of us to see what happened as they warmed & opened over time. We sampled the following: 1) 1972 Courage Anniversary Ale 2) 1998 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 3) 1996 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 4) 1994 Thomas Hardy -nip bottle 5) 1993 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 6) 1992 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 7) 1990 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 8) 1989 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 9) 1986 Thomas Hardy - regular bottle 10) 1979 Thomas Hardy - nip bottle 11) 1978 Thomas Hardy - nip bottle 12) 1975 Thomas Hardy - nip bottle 13) 1968 Thomas Hardy - First year, nip bottle 14) 1983 Thomas Hardy Royal Ale 15) 1988 J.W. Lee's Harvest Ale An incredible afternoon, but that's another story. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:43:12 -0500 Subject: Glass Vs Plastic > From: Ed Tash > Has anyone here every judged a competition using glass and do you think it made any difference? I plan to run the competition next year and want to have the best setup of judges that I possibly can. I have only judged at a single competition where they used actual glasses. I did not particularly care for that setup since the glasses were extremely small. I know someone had a monumental task afterward cleaning up the glasses, and if I am not mistaken near the end they had to switch to plastic glasses instead. If you go with plastic, I have judged in comps where the cups ruined head retention and others where the plastic was not clear. The best plastic cups I have found are 7ounce made by Comet/Sweetheart and have part number CM-T7T. They are crystal clear, they do not affect head, and the cost is about $38 per 500 cups (they are not the cheapest thing on the planet). They do break easily if dropped, but don't crush in your hand. I would think some of the bigger competitions would have other suggestions about cups. Cheers, Mike Dixon Wake Forest, NC ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:42:32 -0500 Subject: Glass vs Plastic The advantages of Plastic are that it's cheap, stackable, nearly unbreakable, disposable, and available in a very good size/shape for judging. The downsides are that clarity can be an issue, the cups can smell "plasticy" causing the beer to falsly register as "phenolic" The sole advantage of glass is that it (probably) doesn't have an odor associated with it - unless it was washed w/ soap that didn't rinse completely, rinsed with a chlorine sanitizer, or not properly cleaned at all. All of these can affect color, clarity, head, aroma, flavor, etc. So, assuming you have perfect glassware (and that includes perfect size and shape, as well - it's tough to judge properly using 10oz bar shells) "all" you have to deal with is the logistics. YOU may not have to worry about cost or clean-up, but SOME one does. For an event with 10 entries and three judges you will need a minimum of 30 glasses (or plastic cups - odd how you wouldn't call them plastic glasses, or glass cups... but I digress) which is a more of lees a single sleeve on the one hand, and an entire table full of glassware on the other. Not an insurmountable issue, certainly, but already becoming AN issue. If your event were any larger, the problem would get exponentailly worse as you then have 'mini bos' and 'bos' rounds to consolidate flights and pick winners. Large competitions, such as AHA Nationals, regularly use thousands of cups. The logistics of glass would be just insane. Even if you were washing and reusing the glassware, you would have all the issues mentionend above, plus heat, and you STILL have the nightmare of getting them to and from the dishwasher and the judges. So I guess MY arrogant opinion is that if you can convieniently provide appropriately sized, shaped, clean, clear, odor free glassware, there's nothing wrong with it. But a quality clear, clean, low-odor plastic cup is perfectly acceptable, and much easier to deal with, as a rule. Pete Bussa ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:45:43 -0500 Subject: glass vs plastic Both have their benefits and their drawbacks. Glass has no odor, assuming it's properly cleaned. You can reuse glass, even within the same competition, so there's less risk of running out of glasses. It doesn't fill up the landfills. On the other hand, glass is more expensive, the glasses have to be stored between competitions, detergent residue can kill the head or add aromas, and glasses are typically smoother than plastic and don't generate as much head. Plastic is cheap and disposable, so is a good choice when dish-washing facilities are not available. The hard molded plastic cups generally have very little odor and some nice sharp edges that help to generate and keep the head on the small judging sample. But cheap plastic glasses can have a very distinctive odor that makes it difficult to judge the beer well. Our club bought 4 cases of judging glasses about a decade ago, and we're still using them. On balance, I think I prefer glass. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************