Subject: Digest for the period 5/28/2003 - 5/29/2003 Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 01:04:44 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. ABC/MCAB VI qualifier (Roxanne Hastings) 2. Re: Digest for the period 5/22/2003 - 5/23/2003 (CondrBen`at`aol.com) 3. Re: Barley Wines VS Strong Ale (JazzboBob`at`aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roxanne Hastings Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:11:24 -0600 Subject: ABC/MCAB VI qualifier The Edmonton Homebrewers Guild is pleased to host the 2003 Aurora Brewing Challenge. ABC 2003 is an MCAB VI qualifying event (for 2004). It will be held June 6 - 8, 2003 in Edmonton, Alberta. Entries must be received by Monday, June 2, 2003. Entry fees are $6.00 Cndn. For the 4th and additional entries the fee is $5.00. Two bottles per entry-PET and swing top bottles will be accepted. Enter as many beer styles/subcategories as you wish. You may enter more than one entry per subcategory. We host the entire BJCP range of styles including meads. Large classes e.g. American Pale Ales, Stouts, Euro Pale lagers split into 2 catagories with full medals for both. No collapsed classes - ever! For more information about the ABC and MCAB, check out our web page at www.ehg.ca. Please deliver or send (prepaid) your entries to: Alley Kat Brewing Company c/o Neil Herbst 9929 - 60th Avenue Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6E 0C7 Phone: (780) 436-8922 This is the fifth year running that the Guild has hosted this homebrewing competition. Last year's event attracted 216 entries from around North America. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CondrBen`at`aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:34:22 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 5/22/2003 - 5/23/2003 I wanted to amplify my comments regarding Bev Blackwood and John Tull's postings. My mini BOS statements were not intended for the mult-flight category. Certainly these should have a concessus for those large (twenty entries plus) categories such as American Pale Ale, Stout, etc., ( I still question whether provisions are made for the mini BOS for the beer to be in the best condition possible). The assertions I made are for the eight to ten flight category that decides win, place, and show. Save for extreme tight scoring, the mini BOS should still not apply here, even if there is a large disparity in the judges scores of more than five points. Something made an impact on a judge to score high at the outset and first impressions should be adhered to. Regarding Drew Beechum's comments on low scoring; This isn't a problem so long as you're in sync with the other judges on whether the beer is excellent, flawed, in style, etc. In the Northeast, it has almost become a blood sport for some judges to score low on a beer due to perceived personal tastes and not what the style parameters are. So long as you're within five points of your fellow judge, go low! Ben Jankowski ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JazzboBob`at`aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:35:25 EDT Subject: Re: Barley Wines VS Strong Ale I like to brew old ales and barley wines and the style guidelines seems to me a bit of a debate of semantics. Any barley wine (Category 12 A or B) will be an "old ale" in the sense of needing to be aged to maturity and drinkability. This would be in regard to the historical use of the term "old ale" or "stale beer." A Strong Ale (Category 11) would also need to be aged for some time, although not necessarily as long as a big barley wine. But it certainly would need a lot more aging then an ordinary bitter and a batch of it could easily be referred to by some brewer as his cask of olde ale as it sits around maturing. Hence, the usage of the terms olde ales, strong ale and barley wines overlap. I would consider these types of beers along a sliding continuum with old ales at the lower gravity spectrum and barley wines at the higher extreme. There are overlapping beer examples in the OG 80/90 range. In tasting Thomas Hardy, I think a beer of it's proportion and strength (OG 125) as none other then English style barley wine being labeled and referred to as a strong ale or old ale by marketers and journalists. Olde Peculier (OG 58) is a great example of a strong ale. Alas, no snobbery intended but as a traveling judge, but the Old Pec served on draft in York is quite different and tastier then the bottled stuff that makes it way to Philadelphia. I agree that the Style Guidelines need to be revised in this area. Bob Grossman AHA Barley Wine Gold winner in 1991 and 1999. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan L. Gros Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 21:21:07 -0700 This was in reference to English Old Ale, but it applies to quite a few styles. The other way to read the question, though, is whether Old Peculier and Thomas Hardy's are the same style. That question is open for debate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bev Blackwood II Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:31:33 -0500 Subject: Reactions on two topics... > The other way to read the question, though, is whether Old Peculier > and Thomas Hardy's are the same style. That question is open for debate My personal opinion is that it (Thomas Hardy) is an English Barleywine and the styles (Old Ale & English Barleywine) need to be revamped a bit. Subject: Digest for the period 5/28/2003 - 5/29/2003 Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 01:04:44 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. ABC/MCAB VI qualifier (Roxanne Hastings) 2. Re: Digest for the period 5/22/2003 - 5/23/2003 (CondrBen`at`aol.com) 3. Re: Barley Wines VS Strong Ale (JazzboBob`at`aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roxanne Hastings Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:11:24 -0600 Subject: ABC/MCAB VI qualifier The Edmonton Homebrewers Guild is pleased to host the 2003 Aurora Brewing Challenge. ABC 2003 is an MCAB VI qualifying event (for 2004). It will be held June 6 - 8, 2003 in Edmonton, Alberta. Entries must be received by Monday, June 2, 2003. Entry fees are $6.00 Cndn. For the 4th and additional entries the fee is $5.00. Two bottles per entry-PET and swing top bottles will be accepted. Enter as many beer styles/subcategories as you wish. You may enter more than one entry per subcategory. We host the entire BJCP range of styles including meads. Large classes e.g. American Pale Ales, Stouts, Euro Pale lagers split into 2 catagories with full medals for both. No collapsed classes - ever! For more information about the ABC and MCAB, check out our web page at www.ehg.ca. Please deliver or send (prepaid) your entries to: Alley Kat Brewing Company c/o Neil Herbst 9929 - 60th Avenue Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6E 0C7 Phone: (780) 436-8922 This is the fifth year running that the Guild has hosted this homebrewing competition. Last year's event attracted 216 entries from around North America. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CondrBen`at`aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:34:22 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 5/22/2003 - 5/23/2003 I wanted to amplify my comments regarding Bev Blackwood and John Tull's postings. My mini BOS statements were not intended for the mult-flight category. Certainly these should have a concessus for those large (twenty entries plus) categories such as American Pale Ale, Stout, etc., ( I still question whether provisions are made for the mini BOS for the beer to be in the best condition possible). The assertions I made are for the eight to ten flight category that decides win, place, and show. Save for extreme tight scoring, the mini BOS should still not apply here, even if there is a large disparity in the judges scores of more than five points. Something made an impact on a judge to score high at the outset and first impressions should be adhered to. Regarding Drew Beechum's comments on low scoring; This isn't a problem so long as you're in sync with the other judges on whether the beer is excellent, flawed, in style, etc. In the Northeast, it has almost become a blood sport for some judges to score low on a beer due to perceived personal tastes and not what the style parameters are. So long as you're within five points of your fellow judge, go low! Ben Jankowski ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JazzboBob`at`aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:35:25 EDT Subject: Re: Barley Wines VS Strong Ale I like to brew old ales and barley wines and the style guidelines seems to me a bit of a debate of semantics. Any barley wine (Category 12 A or B) will be an "old ale" in the sense of needing to be aged to maturity and drinkability. This would be in regard to the historical use of the term "old ale" or "stale beer." A Strong Ale (Category 11) would also need to be aged for some time, although not necessarily as long as a big barley wine. But it certainly would need a lot more aging then an ordinary bitter and a batch of it could easily be referred to by some brewer as his cask of olde ale as it sits around maturing. Hence, the usage of the terms olde ales, strong ale and barley wines overlap. I would consider these types of beers along a sliding continuum with old ales at the lower gravity spectrum and barley wines at the higher extreme. There are overlapping beer examples in the OG 80/90 range. In tasting Thomas Hardy, I think a beer of it's proportion and strength (OG 125) as none other then English style barley wine being labeled and referred to as a strong ale or old ale by marketers and journalists. Olde Peculier (OG 58) is a great example of a strong ale. Alas, no snobbery intended but as a traveling judge, but the Old Pec served on draft in York is quite different and tastier then the bottled stuff that makes it way to Philadelphia. I agree that the Style Guidelines need to be revised in this area. Bob Grossman AHA Barley Wine Gold winner in 1991 and 1999. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan L. Gros Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 21:21:07 -0700 This was in reference to English Old Ale, but it applies to quite a few styles. The other way to read the question, though, is whether Old Peculier and Thomas Hardy's are the same style. That question is open for debate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bev Blackwood II Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:31:33 -0500 Subject: Reactions on two topics... > The other way to read the question, though, is whether Old Peculier > and Thomas Hardy's are the same style. That question is open for debate My personal opinion is that it (Thomas Hardy) is an English Barleywine and the styles (Old Ale & English Barleywine) need to be revamped a bit.