Subject: Digest for the period 5/26/2003 - 5/27/2003 Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 01:02:39 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. RE: One bottle? (Bob Paolino) 2. More 1 vs. 2 vs. 3 (Bev Blackwood II) 3. ONE WEEK LEFT FOR ENTRIES! BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition (Christopher Clair) 4. Re: Digest for the period 5/24/2003 - 5/25/2003 (CondrBen`at`aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Paolino Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:27:07 Subject: RE: One bottle? hollen`at`woodsprite.com wrote on Fri, 23 May 2003 09:44:00 -0400 (EDT): [snip] >>Also, I agree that two bottles for the NHC is not a good thing. Take last >>year for example. QUAFF alone handled the first round for the Southwest >>region. There were more than 700 entries. Having to receive, store and >>process 1400+ bottles would not have been impossible. > [I trust you didn't intend the double negative ;-)] 1. Here's an off-the-wall suggestion no one's made yet. It doesn't get you away from having to recap and rechill and just hope you don't lose too much of the more subtle characters, but would lessen the one-bottle problem (also not yet mentioned in this thread) of having enough beer left that you aren't pouring cloudy beer in the MBOS: require, recommend, or allow entrants to submit 1/2 litre bottles, particularly in the big style categories. 2. Another possibility is to identify the categories you expect to require MBOS and give the entrant the option of sending a second bottle as a way of giving him/her a better chance of an accurate evaluation in the MBOS. (To alert organiser/stewards/judges to the availability of the second bottle, add a check-off box to the entry form to be noted in the database and printed on flight sheets.) Yes, it increases the number of bottles to handle, but it doesn't double it. Okay, talk among yourselves.... :-) Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino >From the Department of Military Intelligence and Jumbo Shrimp: Sign seen on a recently poisoned lawn on Johnson: TruGreen/ChemLawn ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X against HTML e-mail: / \ Friends don't send friends HTML-bloated messages! ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bev Blackwood II Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 11:13:09 -0500 Subject: More 1 vs. 2 vs. 3 I guess I suffer from a distorted perspective. Last year I ran the Southern regional of the AHA's and at 400 or so entries it seemed pretty easy, basically a one man job. Our competition, the Dixie Cup, does 3 bottle entries and averages about 700+ entries a year, so managing 2100 bottles is the norm for us. Last year we had to wrangle more like 960 or so entries, so that was a little more of a challenge. When it came time for us to judge at the AHA's we tried our best to have the panels who did the mini-BOS rounds to be seated simultaneously and have an even number of beers to judge so that nobody (and no beers) wound up waiting on a panel to finish up. All in all, there seemed to be few complaints about the system. Beers that were advanced to the mini BOS were usually still in good enough shape that there wasn't a debate about what they "used to be" right out of the bottle. I have to admit, I like entering 2 bottle contests, but I worry about either the "mini BOS" or "Actual BOS" that has to depend on the remainder of a bottle to advance, particularly in large categories. For those who would say, Okay.. 3 bottles for APA, but 2 bottles for everything else. As an organizer, that would be a nightmare. Just my .02 -BDB2 Bev D. Blackwood II Brewsletter Editor The Foam Rangers http://www.foamrangers.com ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Clair Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:57:56 -0400 Subject: ONE WEEK LEFT FOR ENTRIES! BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition Brewers Unlimited Zany Zymurgists (BUZZ) is proud to announce that the 2003 BUZZ Off home brew competition will be held on Saturday, June 7th at Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant in West Chester, PA. For another year we will be a qualifying event for the prestigious Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing (MCAB) as well as the Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year. All BJCP recognized styles including meads and ciders are eligible for entry. For complete details and forms, please visit the BUZZ web site at http://hbd.org/buzz. Entries will be accepted between May 12 and June 1. For drop off and mail in locations please refer to the BUZZ web site. Please, do not send entries to Iron Hill. BJCP Judges and stewards will be needed. If you are interested please contact me or another committee member (contact information can be found on the web site). All judges must be BJCP certified. Good luck and cheers! Christopher Clair buzz`at`netreach.net http://hbd.org/buzz "The mouth of a perfectly happy man is filled with beer." - Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, 2200 B.C. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CondrBen`at`aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:57:30 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 5/24/2003 - 5/25/2003 One bottle is more than sufficient for any first round judging. I am in total agreement that three bottles per competition is too much for a brewer to send and for an organizer to catalog. Judges at various competitions I have attended haven't had a problem. This brings us to the whole concept of a Mini Best of Show. Shouldn't the straight away three highest point beers win the event? Remember, as judges we are evaluating beer under controlled conditions (temperature). To re-review these same beers after several hours have lapsed may be corrupting the judging process from the standpoint of oxidation, sediment (if any), etc., thereby swaying the vote for a beer that perhaps wasn't up to snuff at the initial judging process. The only reason a mini BOS should even take place is if the beers are so closely scored that the judges are having problems placing the three top scorers. Too often, I have seen more than three beers in a mini BOS. Is this fair to the entrant who may have garnered the highest point score only to lose in a consensus mini BOS? >From an earlier posting, I am in total agreement that judging one beer should take no more than ten minutes. If a judge knows his craft, a fair assessment of the beer will follow in quick order. Ben Jankowski Oyster Bay, NY ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 5/26/2003 - 5/27/2003 Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 01:02:39 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. RE: One bottle? (Bob Paolino) 2. More 1 vs. 2 vs. 3 (Bev Blackwood II) 3. ONE WEEK LEFT FOR ENTRIES! BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition (Christopher Clair) 4. Re: Digest for the period 5/24/2003 - 5/25/2003 (CondrBen`at`aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Paolino Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:27:07 Subject: RE: One bottle? hollen`at`woodsprite.com wrote on Fri, 23 May 2003 09:44:00 -0400 (EDT): [snip] >>Also, I agree that two bottles for the NHC is not a good thing. Take last >>year for example. QUAFF alone handled the first round for the Southwest >>region. There were more than 700 entries. Having to receive, store and >>process 1400+ bottles would not have been impossible. > [I trust you didn't intend the double negative ;-)] 1. Here's an off-the-wall suggestion no one's made yet. It doesn't get you away from having to recap and rechill and just hope you don't lose too much of the more subtle characters, but would lessen the one-bottle problem (also not yet mentioned in this thread) of having enough beer left that you aren't pouring cloudy beer in the MBOS: require, recommend, or allow entrants to submit 1/2 litre bottles, particularly in the big style categories. 2. Another possibility is to identify the categories you expect to require MBOS and give the entrant the option of sending a second bottle as a way of giving him/her a better chance of an accurate evaluation in the MBOS. (To alert organiser/stewards/judges to the availability of the second bottle, add a check-off box to the entry form to be noted in the database and printed on flight sheets.) Yes, it increases the number of bottles to handle, but it doesn't double it. Okay, talk among yourselves.... :-) Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino >From the Department of Military Intelligence and Jumbo Shrimp: Sign seen on a recently poisoned lawn on Johnson: TruGreen/ChemLawn ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X against HTML e-mail: / \ Friends don't send friends HTML-bloated messages! ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bev Blackwood II Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 11:13:09 -0500 Subject: More 1 vs. 2 vs. 3 I guess I suffer from a distorted perspective. Last year I ran the Southern regional of the AHA's and at 400 or so entries it seemed pretty easy, basically a one man job. Our competition, the Dixie Cup, does 3 bottle entries and averages about 700+ entries a year, so managing 2100 bottles is the norm for us. Last year we had to wrangle more like 960 or so entries, so that was a little more of a challenge. When it came time for us to judge at the AHA's we tried our best to have the panels who did the mini-BOS rounds to be seated simultaneously and have an even number of beers to judge so that nobody (and no beers) wound up waiting on a panel to finish up. All in all, there seemed to be few complaints about the system. Beers that were advanced to the mini BOS were usually still in good enough shape that there wasn't a debate about what they "used to be" right out of the bottle. I have to admit, I like entering 2 bottle contests, but I worry about either the "mini BOS" or "Actual BOS" that has to depend on the remainder of a bottle to advance, particularly in large categories. For those who would say, Okay.. 3 bottles for APA, but 2 bottles for everything else. As an organizer, that would be a nightmare. Just my .02 -BDB2 Bev D. Blackwood II Brewsletter Editor The Foam Rangers http://www.foamrangers.com ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Clair Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:57:56 -0400 Subject: ONE WEEK LEFT FOR ENTRIES! BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition Brewers Unlimited Zany Zymurgists (BUZZ) is proud to announce that the 2003 BUZZ Off home brew competition will be held on Saturday, June 7th at Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant in West Chester, PA. For another year we will be a qualifying event for the prestigious Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing (MCAB) as well as the Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year. All BJCP recognized styles including meads and ciders are eligible for entry. For complete details and forms, please visit the BUZZ web site at http://hbd.org/buzz. Entries will be accepted between May 12 and June 1. For drop off and mail in locations please refer to the BUZZ web site. Please, do not send entries to Iron Hill. BJCP Judges and stewards will be needed. If you are interested please contact me or another committee member (contact information can be found on the web site). All judges must be BJCP certified. Good luck and cheers! Christopher Clair buzz`at`netreach.net http://hbd.org/buzz "The mouth of a perfectly happy man is filled with beer." - Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, 2200 B.C. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CondrBen`at`aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:57:30 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 5/24/2003 - 5/25/2003 One bottle is more than sufficient for any first round judging. I am in total agreement that three bottles per competition is too much for a brewer to send and for an organizer to catalog. Judges at various competitions I have attended haven't had a problem. This brings us to the whole concept of a Mini Best of Show. Shouldn't the straight away three highest point beers win the event? Remember, as judges we are evaluating beer under controlled conditions (temperature). To re-review these same beers after several hours have lapsed may be corrupting the judging process from the standpoint of oxidation, sediment (if any), etc., thereby swaying the vote for a beer that perhaps wasn't up to snuff at the initial judging process. The only reason a mini BOS should even take place is if the beers are so closely scored that the judges are having problems placing the three top scorers. Too often, I have seen more than three beers in a mini BOS. Is this fair to the entrant who may have garnered the highest point score only to lose in a consensus mini BOS? >From an earlier posting, I am in total agreement that judging one beer should take no more than ten minutes. If a judge knows his craft, a fair assessment of the beer will follow in quick order. Ben Jankowski Oyster Bay, NY ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************