Subject: Digest for the period 5/22/2003 - 5/23/2003 Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 01:01:06 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Decongestants (Mike Dixon) 2. Re: AHA 1st Round (David Houseman) 3. AHA 1st round (Gordon Strong) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:25:42 -0400 Subject: Decongestants > From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:11:27 -0400 > Alavert and Claritin are chemically identical. (Loratidine.) They are > antihistimines, and will reduce congestion due to allergic-type > reactions, by preventing its occurrence. Claritin-D adds a decongestant > (I'm not sure which one) to standard Claritin. Without going into specifics since it has little do with judging. I, and others, experienced side effects from Claritin that Alavert does not cause. (The converse could certainly be true) The active ingredients in both medications are, as you state, the same. That ingredient is Loratadine (note spelling). That does not make them chemically identical, they both contain many other compounds. I believe my point about judging and medicines is still valid. If needed, pick one which affects your abilities as a judge, the least. Cheers, Mike Dixon Wake Forest, NC ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:39:45 -0400 Subject: Re: AHA 1st Round Drew says: "One solution might be to have the bottles immediately re-capped upon pour and dropped straight back into the coolers. Only after the confirmation that the beer not be saved for a mini-BOS would the bottle be released to the stewards table. (I think if we refused the stews beer much after that they'd have our heads)" It's amazing that Drew suggests what should have been standard operating procedure. Yep, he's hit the nail on the head. This isn't the responsibility of the AHA. The finger of fault could certainly be pointed to the local organizers. But the judges involved have to take responsibility as well. If anyone as a judge is involved in a flight that has other flights that require resolution with a mini-BOS, you have the responsibility to manage the amount of beer consumed and the re-capping of the bottles that might go forward. With two judges in a flight that alone will determine the winners, I routinely pour three glasses, one to share with the steward so they can learn as well. But if I'm in a multiple flight category that will have a mini-BOS the first thing I do is ask, "Is there a second bottle?" If so, then back to pouring liberally and sharing with the steward. But if there's only one bottle, then the next question is where are the caps and capper. Judges, especially the more experienced ones have to take the responsibility to manage these situations. Often they are much more experienced than the organizers of the local competitions. But all involved have to be situationally aware and plan accordingly. One bottle will work but you can't manage one bottle like you would if you had two. Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gordon Strong Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 09:10:31 -0400 Subject: AHA 1st round The AHA NHC is unique due to its size, multiple geographic rounds, homogenous flights, and prestige. The only competition that comes close is MCAB, but the qualifying rounds are more evenly distributed over time, the number of entries are lower, and only certain styles are represented. Issues relating to these huge competitions don't always translate to "normal" competitions that take place in one round in one place (regardless of number of entries). I don't think anyone who is discussing the AHA 1st round would seriously suggest that regular competitions go to a 1-bottle format. Given the large number of entries in the AHA NHC, I think the 1-bottle first round is appropriate. From what I've seen in several regions, the logistics of the competition are daunting enough as it currently stands without doubling the number of bottles to handle (which essentially doubles the workload). So, given that we know we only have one bottle, how best to manage the situation to assure fairness to all entrants? Well, I can think of many things: 1. Keep the judging moving along. Ten minutes per beer is sufficient. Slow judging means delaying the mini-BOS and letting the beers stale. 2. Use no more than 3 judges per flight in the preliminary round and no more than 1 judge per sub-flight in the mini-BOS. Conserve your pours. 3. Open the bottle in a way that doesn't cause the cap to be crimped. Either use a larger bottle opener and walk it around the edge a bit at a time, or put a quarter on top of the cap when opening it. Recap immediately after pouring; it should make an audible "snap". You can recap just by putting the cap on the bottle and pressing hard. Alternately, the bottle can be recapped using a wing capper. 4. After the beer has been evaluated, instruct your steward to either put the remaining beer back in the cooler or to discard it. Only keep contenders active. 5. Keep kibbutzers to a minimum, and keep them away from your beer until judging is done. They slow down judging and drink the beer your need. 6. Save some of your highest scoring beer as you continue to judge. Refer back to it if necessary to help you keep your scores consistent. Avoid going back at the end of a sub-flight to rejudge beers. Consciously try to avoid scoring drift. Whenever you think you have a new #1 based on score, ask yourself at that moment whether it was better than the previous #1. These tips will keep the beer in reasonable condition for the mini-BOS. While a second bottle would always be fresher (if it is in the same condition as the first bottle, and not infected or otherwise mishandled), I don't think it would be worth all the unused second bottles for the competition organizers to handle. There is no BOS round during the AHA 1st round, so the traditional need for a second bottle isn't present. So, the AHA 1st round really isn't that logically different from a normal competition that requires two bottles (a majority these days, I think). Remember that judging is inherently subjective so even if you had a fresh second bottle doesn't mean that you can get an arbitrary group of judges to agree on anything. I don't think it is unreasonable for judges to use their judgment about the competition environment, logistics, and special requirements when starting to judge. Be reasonable, flexible, and considerate and you should do fine. Gordon ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 5/22/2003 - 5/23/2003 Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 01:01:06 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Decongestants (Mike Dixon) 2. Re: AHA 1st Round (David Houseman) 3. AHA 1st round (Gordon Strong) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:25:42 -0400 Subject: Decongestants > From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:11:27 -0400 > Alavert and Claritin are chemically identical. (Loratidine.) They are > antihistimines, and will reduce congestion due to allergic-type > reactions, by preventing its occurrence. Claritin-D adds a decongestant > (I'm not sure which one) to standard Claritin. Without going into specifics since it has little do with judging. I, and others, experienced side effects from Claritin that Alavert does not cause. (The converse could certainly be true) The active ingredients in both medications are, as you state, the same. That ingredient is Loratadine (note spelling). That does not make them chemically identical, they both contain many other compounds. I believe my point about judging and medicines is still valid. If needed, pick one which affects your abilities as a judge, the least. Cheers, Mike Dixon Wake Forest, NC ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:39:45 -0400 Subject: Re: AHA 1st Round Drew says: "One solution might be to have the bottles immediately re-capped upon pour and dropped straight back into the coolers. Only after the confirmation that the beer not be saved for a mini-BOS would the bottle be released to the stewards table. (I think if we refused the stews beer much after that they'd have our heads)" It's amazing that Drew suggests what should have been standard operating procedure. Yep, he's hit the nail on the head. This isn't the responsibility of the AHA. The finger of fault could certainly be pointed to the local organizers. But the judges involved have to take responsibility as well. If anyone as a judge is involved in a flight that has other flights that require resolution with a mini-BOS, you have the responsibility to manage the amount of beer consumed and the re-capping of the bottles that might go forward. With two judges in a flight that alone will determine the winners, I routinely pour three glasses, one to share with the steward so they can learn as well. But if I'm in a multiple flight category that will have a mini-BOS the first thing I do is ask, "Is there a second bottle?" If so, then back to pouring liberally and sharing with the steward. But if there's only one bottle, then the next question is where are the caps and capper. Judges, especially the more experienced ones have to take the responsibility to manage these situations. Often they are much more experienced than the organizers of the local competitions. But all involved have to be situationally aware and plan accordingly. One bottle will work but you can't manage one bottle like you would if you had two. Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gordon Strong Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 09:10:31 -0400 Subject: AHA 1st round The AHA NHC is unique due to its size, multiple geographic rounds, homogenous flights, and prestige. The only competition that comes close is MCAB, but the qualifying rounds are more evenly distributed over time, the number of entries are lower, and only certain styles are represented. Issues relating to these huge competitions don't always translate to "normal" competitions that take place in one round in one place (regardless of number of entries). I don't think anyone who is discussing the AHA 1st round would seriously suggest that regular competitions go to a 1-bottle format. Given the large number of entries in the AHA NHC, I think the 1-bottle first round is appropriate. From what I've seen in several regions, the logistics of the competition are daunting enough as it currently stands without doubling the number of bottles to handle (which essentially doubles the workload). So, given that we know we only have one bottle, how best to manage the situation to assure fairness to all entrants? Well, I can think of many things: 1. Keep the judging moving along. Ten minutes per beer is sufficient. Slow judging means delaying the mini-BOS and letting the beers stale. 2. Use no more than 3 judges per flight in the preliminary round and no more than 1 judge per sub-flight in the mini-BOS. Conserve your pours. 3. Open the bottle in a way that doesn't cause the cap to be crimped. Either use a larger bottle opener and walk it around the edge a bit at a time, or put a quarter on top of the cap when opening it. Recap immediately after pouring; it should make an audible "snap". You can recap just by putting the cap on the bottle and pressing hard. Alternately, the bottle can be recapped using a wing capper. 4. After the beer has been evaluated, instruct your steward to either put the remaining beer back in the cooler or to discard it. Only keep contenders active. 5. Keep kibbutzers to a minimum, and keep them away from your beer until judging is done. They slow down judging and drink the beer your need. 6. Save some of your highest scoring beer as you continue to judge. Refer back to it if necessary to help you keep your scores consistent. Avoid going back at the end of a sub-flight to rejudge beers. Consciously try to avoid scoring drift. Whenever you think you have a new #1 based on score, ask yourself at that moment whether it was better than the previous #1. These tips will keep the beer in reasonable condition for the mini-BOS. While a second bottle would always be fresher (if it is in the same condition as the first bottle, and not infected or otherwise mishandled), I don't think it would be worth all the unused second bottles for the competition organizers to handle. There is no BOS round during the AHA 1st round, so the traditional need for a second bottle isn't present. So, the AHA 1st round really isn't that logically different from a normal competition that requires two bottles (a majority these days, I think). Remember that judging is inherently subjective so even if you had a fresh second bottle doesn't mean that you can get an arbitrary group of judges to agree on anything. I don't think it is unreasonable for judges to use their judgment about the competition environment, logistics, and special requirements when starting to judge. Be reasonable, flexible, and considerate and you should do fine. Gordon ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************