Subject: Digest for the period 5/16/2003 - 5/17/2003 Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 01:01:53 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: NHC Round 1 Judging (Mark Tumarkin) 2. Re: NHC Round 1 Judging (John C. Tull) 3. Decongestants (Hedglin, Nils A) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Tumarkin Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 06:47:46 -0400 Subject: Re: NHC Round 1 Judging Jay, I've forwarded on your post to the AHA Board of Advisors, of which I'm a member. I agree that the situation you describe is problematic. I can also envision several other possible scenarios in which availability of a 2nd bottle would be beneficial for better judging & feedback to the entrants. I don't know whether doubling the bottle storage would cause problems for any of the First Round sites - and some people might complain about needing to send an additional bottle on top of our 'high' entry fee, but then you can't please everyone. At any rate, you've come up with a question worth considering. Looking forward to seeing & judging with many of you in Chicago next month! Mark Tumarkin AHA BOA Gainesville, FL "Have You Entered The Lallemand Scholarship?? Go to http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further info!" ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:58:27 -0700 Subject: Re: NHC Round 1 Judging I agree that the process stinks. I probably will not enter beers into the AHA until they change this process. Another huge problem is that large categories are split and placement is given based on scores. Scores are great, but they vary tremendously from table to table (my 38 may be the next table's 45). There is no doubt that the AHA system is not very good. Unfortunately, I would imagine that the size of the event dictates that they use such unusual means to achieve the end result. Perhaps they should have more regions to try and reduce the load at each event. Definitely requiring 2 bottles so a mini BOS could be held would be the minimum to make things better. Just my opinions (and possibly bad ones at that), John C. Tull Washoe Zephyr Zymurgists On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 22:01 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: > I've judged in 7 NHC final rounds over the years and found them > challenging. > But I recently judged at the first NHC round out here for the first > time and, > although the host club did a fine job, I was disturbed by the > procedures > dictated by having only one bottle per entry. > > Our table of 4 judges was faced with 24 entries covering 4 different > styles. > Dividing into split flites meant that after over two hours we had to > make the > final choice of 1st, 2nd and 3rd based on warm, flat beer in bottles > that had > been open for considerable time. The final selection was highly > contentious, > given that some judges tried to explain the volatile aroma that > originally > attracted them to one beer (now totally dissipated) while the other > judges > promoted another beer whose flavor had apparently significantly > changed with > the passing of time. > > It seems doubtful the entrants got fair feedback for their hefty > $8-$12 entry > fee. Is this the best we can do for the top "National" competition? > > Jay Ankeney ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hedglin, Nils A Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:25:40 -0700 Subject: Decongestants Hello, I am a newly recognized judge. Unfortunately, I have a chronic congestion problem that inhibits my judging ability. In the BJCP guildlines, I noticed it recommended against taking decongestants before judging. What is the reason for that? Are any of the new products ok (clariten, allegra, flonase, nascort)? =20 Thanks, Nils Hedglin G0619 Subject: Digest for the period 5/16/2003 - 5/17/2003 Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 01:01:53 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: NHC Round 1 Judging (Mark Tumarkin) 2. Re: NHC Round 1 Judging (John C. Tull) 3. Decongestants (Hedglin, Nils A) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Tumarkin Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 06:47:46 -0400 Subject: Re: NHC Round 1 Judging Jay, I've forwarded on your post to the AHA Board of Advisors, of which I'm a member. I agree that the situation you describe is problematic. I can also envision several other possible scenarios in which availability of a 2nd bottle would be beneficial for better judging & feedback to the entrants. I don't know whether doubling the bottle storage would cause problems for any of the First Round sites - and some people might complain about needing to send an additional bottle on top of our 'high' entry fee, but then you can't please everyone. At any rate, you've come up with a question worth considering. Looking forward to seeing & judging with many of you in Chicago next month! Mark Tumarkin AHA BOA Gainesville, FL "Have You Entered The Lallemand Scholarship?? Go to http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further info!" ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:58:27 -0700 Subject: Re: NHC Round 1 Judging I agree that the process stinks. I probably will not enter beers into the AHA until they change this process. Another huge problem is that large categories are split and placement is given based on scores. Scores are great, but they vary tremendously from table to table (my 38 may be the next table's 45). There is no doubt that the AHA system is not very good. Unfortunately, I would imagine that the size of the event dictates that they use such unusual means to achieve the end result. Perhaps they should have more regions to try and reduce the load at each event. Definitely requiring 2 bottles so a mini BOS could be held would be the minimum to make things better. Just my opinions (and possibly bad ones at that), John C. Tull Washoe Zephyr Zymurgists On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 22:01 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: > I've judged in 7 NHC final rounds over the years and found them > challenging. > But I recently judged at the first NHC round out here for the first > time and, > although the host club did a fine job, I was disturbed by the > procedures > dictated by having only one bottle per entry. > > Our table of 4 judges was faced with 24 entries covering 4 different > styles. > Dividing into split flites meant that after over two hours we had to > make the > final choice of 1st, 2nd and 3rd based on warm, flat beer in bottles > that had > been open for considerable time. The final selection was highly > contentious, > given that some judges tried to explain the volatile aroma that > originally > attracted them to one beer (now totally dissipated) while the other > judges > promoted another beer whose flavor had apparently significantly > changed with > the passing of time. > > It seems doubtful the entrants got fair feedback for their hefty > $8-$12 entry > fee. Is this the best we can do for the top "National" competition? > > Jay Ankeney ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hedglin, Nils A Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:25:40 -0700 Subject: Decongestants Hello, I am a newly recognized judge. Unfortunately, I have a chronic congestion problem that inhibits my judging ability. In the BJCP guildlines, I noticed it recommended against taking decongestants before judging. What is the reason for that? Are any of the new products ok (clariten, allegra, flonase, nascort)? =20 Thanks, Nils Hedglin G0619