Subject: Digest for the period 4/30/2003 - 5/1/2003 Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 01:03:12 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. mead exam (Jeff & Ellen) 2. Re: Mead Exam, Judge turn out (Ted Hausotter) 3. Re: Hefeweizen (David Houseman) 4. JUdging from the ottle (was: Hefeweizen) (Joel Plutchak) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff & Ellen Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:12:15 -0400 Subject: mead exam I like Gordon's idea of a mead exam for those judges who prefer to judge meads. This would give the already certified beer judge an added certification or rank and give a mead judge some rank without having to take the beer certification test. I do not think that it would be appropriate to raise a judge's beer certification level by scoring well on a mead test. If the resources become available, a separate test for meads would provide a level of respect both for the experienced beer judge and for the mead-only judge. But I think it would be better if they remained separate. On the other hand it makes me wonder why meads are not included in the BJCP exam to begin with. When I first took the test, I made sure I studied the mead styles just in case questions were asked about them. It was not until later that I found them to be excluded from all of the exams. Although I breathed a sigh of relief at the time, I regret not having studied the styles more for my second test attempt. Judging meads alongside experienced non-beer judges has been very enlightening for me over the years, and I think that some of these judges deserve recognition. A separate test would provide that recognition. Jeff Gladish, Tampa, FL ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ted Hausotter Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:33:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Mead Exam, Judge turn out Mead and Cider should either be part of the study guide and test for the BJCP or dropped. We should not kid ourselves by offering the styles and not having a judge pool that can judge them. As a contest organizer they are not my favorite style due to finding judges that will give the contestants their money’s worth. I have judged mead before, only because I was the best qualified at the time. Luckily, by the time the flight was done, the results were determined by cleanliness and balance with obvious winners. Possible answers for the dilemma that we are in are to 1.quit offering it 2. make it part of the standard test 3. have a mead/cider endorsement for our BJCP cards. Naturally, we would all prefer to sit at the mead table and know more about what we are doing. Perhaps a web based training and test could be arranged. How would we do the judge test? As to judge turnout, I am seeing a lot of NONBJCP judges on my score sheets. Who’s judging? Thank you to all the judges that do turn out. As an entrant and organizer it is appreciated. Ted Hausotter Baker City, OR _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:23:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Hefeweizen For those of you that have been to Munich and bought a [Hefe]weizen, you know the process: Bottles are rolled to mix up the yeast sediment. Then opened, layed on their side as they pour into the very tall, and characteristic, Weizen glasses. This beer is mostly foam for quite some time. If you want another, order before you want it because there is a wait for it get to you. All of this is not practical for a home brew at a competition where one is using 5-10oz plastic cups and having to complete a flight of beer in a resonable amount of time. While maybe not ideal, or absolutely true to the style, the current process is practical for the purposes for which it is intended. I don't see changing the guidelines with some extensive field trials...some people could try serving themselves an appropriate mixed home brew Hefeweizen at some competitions and report the results. I can just see how this will come out with an appropriately carbonated Hefeweizen ;-)) Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joel Plutchak Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:27:54 +0000 Subject: JUdging from the ottle (was: Hefeweizen) Hopfen`at`malz wrote: >As a side note, this is now standard practice at the Great American >Beer Festival. Beers judged there are poured in another room by the >stewards, then brought in cups to the judges. This is an aside, but I've seen people recommend this practice for homebrew competitions, and I believe at least one established competition does it that way. I think that's not a good way for beers to be judged with the goal of giving feedback to the brewer (though in a competition like the GABF it's fine). A homebrew judge can get clues from the bottle that can affect the feedback she gives. E.g., large headspace coupled with an oxidized beer would indicate better filling technique could be used, no "Pfffft!" on openingthe bottle backs up low carbonation in the glass, the tell- tale ring around the collar indicates infection may be the source of subtle off flavors, etc. Secondly, the act of pouring a beer gives a judge better indication of the conditioning and head formation and retention than if a beer were poured a few minutes before presentation. And lastly, volatile aroma can dissipate very quickly after pouring, removing or lessening the ability of the judges to evaluate a whole area of a beer's character. I know you weren't recommending this practice, but I thought I'd use this opportunity to maybe get some differing viewpoints fom those who favor pitcher (or cup) presentation of homebrew. I don't see an up side to this for feedback-oriented homebrew judging, but maybe I'm missing something. Joel Plutchak _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 4/30/2003 - 5/1/2003 Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 01:03:12 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. mead exam (Jeff & Ellen) 2. Re: Mead Exam, Judge turn out (Ted Hausotter) 3. Re: Hefeweizen (David Houseman) 4. JUdging from the ottle (was: Hefeweizen) (Joel Plutchak) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff & Ellen Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:12:15 -0400 Subject: mead exam I like Gordon's idea of a mead exam for those judges who prefer to judge meads. This would give the already certified beer judge an added certification or rank and give a mead judge some rank without having to take the beer certification test. I do not think that it would be appropriate to raise a judge's beer certification level by scoring well on a mead test. If the resources become available, a separate test for meads would provide a level of respect both for the experienced beer judge and for the mead-only judge. But I think it would be better if they remained separate. On the other hand it makes me wonder why meads are not included in the BJCP exam to begin with. When I first took the test, I made sure I studied the mead styles just in case questions were asked about them. It was not until later that I found them to be excluded from all of the exams. Although I breathed a sigh of relief at the time, I regret not having studied the styles more for my second test attempt. Judging meads alongside experienced non-beer judges has been very enlightening for me over the years, and I think that some of these judges deserve recognition. A separate test would provide that recognition. Jeff Gladish, Tampa, FL ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ted Hausotter Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:33:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Mead Exam, Judge turn out Mead and Cider should either be part of the study guide and test for the BJCP or dropped. We should not kid ourselves by offering the styles and not having a judge pool that can judge them. As a contest organizer they are not my favorite style due to finding judges that will give the contestants their money’s worth. I have judged mead before, only because I was the best qualified at the time. Luckily, by the time the flight was done, the results were determined by cleanliness and balance with obvious winners. Possible answers for the dilemma that we are in are to 1.quit offering it 2. make it part of the standard test 3. have a mead/cider endorsement for our BJCP cards. Naturally, we would all prefer to sit at the mead table and know more about what we are doing. Perhaps a web based training and test could be arranged. How would we do the judge test? As to judge turnout, I am seeing a lot of NONBJCP judges on my score sheets. Who’s judging? Thank you to all the judges that do turn out. As an entrant and organizer it is appreciated. Ted Hausotter Baker City, OR _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:23:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Hefeweizen For those of you that have been to Munich and bought a [Hefe]weizen, you know the process: Bottles are rolled to mix up the yeast sediment. Then opened, layed on their side as they pour into the very tall, and characteristic, Weizen glasses. This beer is mostly foam for quite some time. If you want another, order before you want it because there is a wait for it get to you. All of this is not practical for a home brew at a competition where one is using 5-10oz plastic cups and having to complete a flight of beer in a resonable amount of time. While maybe not ideal, or absolutely true to the style, the current process is practical for the purposes for which it is intended. I don't see changing the guidelines with some extensive field trials...some people could try serving themselves an appropriate mixed home brew Hefeweizen at some competitions and report the results. I can just see how this will come out with an appropriately carbonated Hefeweizen ;-)) Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joel Plutchak Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:27:54 +0000 Subject: JUdging from the ottle (was: Hefeweizen) Hopfen`at`malz wrote: >As a side note, this is now standard practice at the Great American >Beer Festival. Beers judged there are poured in another room by the >stewards, then brought in cups to the judges. This is an aside, but I've seen people recommend this practice for homebrew competitions, and I believe at least one established competition does it that way. I think that's not a good way for beers to be judged with the goal of giving feedback to the brewer (though in a competition like the GABF it's fine). A homebrew judge can get clues from the bottle that can affect the feedback she gives. E.g., large headspace coupled with an oxidized beer would indicate better filling technique could be used, no "Pfffft!" on openingthe bottle backs up low carbonation in the glass, the tell- tale ring around the collar indicates infection may be the source of subtle off flavors, etc. Secondly, the act of pouring a beer gives a judge better indication of the conditioning and head formation and retention than if a beer were poured a few minutes before presentation. And lastly, volatile aroma can dissipate very quickly after pouring, removing or lessening the ability of the judges to evaluate a whole area of a beer's character. I know you weren't recommending this practice, but I thought I'd use this opportunity to maybe get some differing viewpoints fom those who favor pitcher (or cup) presentation of homebrew. I don't see an up side to this for feedback-oriented homebrew judging, but maybe I'm missing something. Joel Plutchak _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************