Subject: Digest for the period 4/3/2003 - 4/4/2003 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 01:00:45 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Base malt/increasing gravity/color (John C. Tull) 2. misreading Mike (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:28:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Base malt/increasing gravity/color On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 22:00 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: > Hmmmm.. > Jay Hirsch and John Tull both assert that adding a larger proportion of > base malt to a beer will result in a lighter colored beer. I'm not > convinced that this is in fact the case. They both assert that you're > diluting the color malts with more base malt and "of course it would be > lighter". Let's take a look at an example, just to be sure. Nathan, You have taken my original post out of context. I did not state that adding base malt will dilute the color. Base malt has color, so additions of base malt will always contribute to the color of a bee. My example shows reductions in dark malt that account for the change in color. I thought I was clear on that. The values I gave are calculations from a FileMaker program that I wrote using well-debated calculations from HBD and other sources. They are pretty accurate. Here is my post again: > Mike pointed out an error on the American Lagers, but he was not > correct in the assertion below. Color is not simply a product of the > amount of malt, or of the gravity of the beer. What is missing is the > fact that a higher proportion of darker malts (e.g., crystal or roasted > malt) can be found in the grain bill versus the other two beers in the > style. If you put 5 lbs. of 2-row, 0.5 lbs. of 70L crystal, and 0.25 > lbs. of roasted malt, you will have a beer in the neighborhood of 1.030 > O.G. (5 gals.) and 18 SRM. Now, for a heavy, you lose the roasted, > increase the crystal to 1 lb., and increase the 2-row to 6 lbs., you > now have a beer with 1.037 O.G. and an SRM of 11. > > Not everything in brewing is linear. > > Cheers, > John ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:24:35 -0500 Subject: misreading Mike >please show me a beer concoction and the math that would allow the final >gravity of an American Light Beer to be 0.098 as is widely published in the >guidelines. The gravity could certainly be 0.998 or less, but that is not >what the guidelines say. The guidelines are a full 900 points below that.... > >I think Jay took what I posted as saying beer could not got below the >gravity of water, which I did not. It certainly can.... my bad Mike. I misread your comment. Looks like what you caught was a typo. I'm sure it was meant to be 0.998 which is consistent with my Math. I misread and thought you were contesting that, not pointing out that there was one too many 0s. Jay Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 4/3/2003 - 4/4/2003 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 01:00:45 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Base malt/increasing gravity/color (John C. Tull) 2. misreading Mike (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:28:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Base malt/increasing gravity/color On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 22:00 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: > Hmmmm.. > Jay Hirsch and John Tull both assert that adding a larger proportion of > base malt to a beer will result in a lighter colored beer. I'm not > convinced that this is in fact the case. They both assert that you're > diluting the color malts with more base malt and "of course it would be > lighter". Let's take a look at an example, just to be sure. Nathan, You have taken my original post out of context. I did not state that adding base malt will dilute the color. Base malt has color, so additions of base malt will always contribute to the color of a bee. My example shows reductions in dark malt that account for the change in color. I thought I was clear on that. The values I gave are calculations from a FileMaker program that I wrote using well-debated calculations from HBD and other sources. They are pretty accurate. Here is my post again: > Mike pointed out an error on the American Lagers, but he was not > correct in the assertion below. Color is not simply a product of the > amount of malt, or of the gravity of the beer. What is missing is the > fact that a higher proportion of darker malts (e.g., crystal or roasted > malt) can be found in the grain bill versus the other two beers in the > style. If you put 5 lbs. of 2-row, 0.5 lbs. of 70L crystal, and 0.25 > lbs. of roasted malt, you will have a beer in the neighborhood of 1.030 > O.G. (5 gals.) and 18 SRM. Now, for a heavy, you lose the roasted, > increase the crystal to 1 lb., and increase the 2-row to 6 lbs., you > now have a beer with 1.037 O.G. and an SRM of 11. > > Not everything in brewing is linear. > > Cheers, > John ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:24:35 -0500 Subject: misreading Mike >please show me a beer concoction and the math that would allow the final >gravity of an American Light Beer to be 0.098 as is widely published in the >guidelines. The gravity could certainly be 0.998 or less, but that is not >what the guidelines say. The guidelines are a full 900 points below that.... > >I think Jay took what I posted as saying beer could not got below the >gravity of water, which I did not. It certainly can.... my bad Mike. I misread your comment. Looks like what you caught was a typo. I'm sure it was meant to be 0.998 which is consistent with my Math. I misread and thought you were contesting that, not pointing out that there was one too many 0s. Jay Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************