Subject: Digest for the period 4/1/2003 - 4/2/2003 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 01:00:15 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Errors in the guidelines (Mike Dixon) 2. Base malt / increasing gravity / color (nlkanous`at`netscape.net) 3. 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition (Mark Garthwaite) 4. Great Lakes Region - NHC Judge & Steward Registration (Joe Preiser) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:26:46 -0500 Subject: Errors in the guidelines Thanks for all the replies. The 1A is certainly in error, the category 5 I saw as a inconsistency (not necessarily an error). To Jay, I stand by my statement "there is no possible way that beer FG can be lower than the SG of distilled alcohol" and I agree with and understand your statement "And while you might not believe my math, I have made dozens of high gravity concoctions over the years (meads, ciders, wines) where the final OG has finished below that of water." But please show me a beer concoction and the math that would allow the final gravity of an American Light Beer to be 0.098 as is widely published in the guidelines. The gravity could certainly be 0.998 or less, but that is not what the guidelines say. The guidelines are a full 900 points below that.... I think Jay took what I posted as saying beer could not got below the gravity of water, which I did not. It certainly can.... For the Category 5 inconsistency if one used Noonan as a base, the amount of roasted barley for a 60/- is about 1.5%, 70/- is about 1.3%, and 80/- is about 1%. Without taking into account caramelization (which I should), the SRM's as calculated by the Recipator (since it was handy) using Noonan's weights and his OG's were 60/- 7SRM, 70/- 7SRM, and 80/- 7 SRM. Now I am pretty sure ProMash and StrangeBrew would come up with slightly different numbers, but you will not achieve greater colorization from the caramelization of the first runnings from a smaller beer than that of a larger beer. If traditional fly sparging, the first runnings of all the beers should be very similar in gravity provided the same grist/water ratio was utilized in all the mashes. If those first runnings are then caramelized similarly, then they should yeild similar increases in color. I can see the point scale increasing, and not linearly, but not the difference from 34 to 19 (50/- to 70/-) with an OG increase of only 6 - 10 points. Anyway, the point of my post was not to discuss whether I knew what I was talking about or not, but for someone who was working on these issues to investigate and make the decision to leave them as they are, or to change them. I still believe 1A to be in error, and category 5 to be inconsistent. Cheers, Mike Dixon Wake Forest, NC ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nlkanous`at`netscape.net Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:10:37 -0500 Subject: Base malt / increasing gravity / color Hmmmm.. Jay Hirsch and John Tull both assert that adding a larger proportion of base malt to a beer will result in a lighter colored beer. I'm not convinced that this is in fact the case. They both assert that you're diluting the color malts with more base malt and "of course it would be lighter". Let's take a look at an example, just to be sure. Let's make an English Bitter with nothing but pale ale malt. Well, okay let's add 1 oz of black malt for "color". Now, I'm going to use the same approach to make an IPA but it will be all pale ale malt with again, 1 ounce of black malt for color. Now, I like my bitters to be quaffable so I'm looking at an OG of 1.036 and I like my IPA's to be "stout" in comparison and so let's make the IPA to an OG of 1.072 (twice as big). I would bet that you're going to see a significant difference in favor of the IPA being darker. This is an extreme comparison, but is used only as an example of where the logic fails to support the argument. Yes, to a very small extent I could see that moving up in gravity within a particular style as was being discussed could lead to some "dilution" of the color malts but I'm not sure I agree that it would result in a color dilution from 12-34 SRM to 10 to 19SRM. You're going to have to dramatically increase base malt to decrease a beers color from 34 to 19 just by increasing gravity. Sorry guys but I agree that this is a color change that won't be entirely attributable to "dilution" and is at least worth a look. nathan in madison, wi __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promos=380455 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Garthwaite Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:16:16 -0800 Subject: 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild is proud to sponsor the 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition! The Big & Huge is a competion for high gravity beers. Entries for Big Ale and Big Lager categories range from an OG of 1.050 to 1.060. Huge Ale and Huge Lager categories are for OG's greater than 1.060. Ciders, meads, and sakes above an OG of 1.050 are accepted in a single category. When: Saturday May 3, 2003 at 10:00 am - 4:00 pm Where: JT Whitney's Pub & Brewery in Madison, WI Entry Deadline is Wednesday April 30th. To preregister, deliver or email a copy of the registration form for each entry before April 30th to: Mark Garthwaite, Big & Huge Czar 617 Piper Drive Madison, WI 53711 or by email (preferred method) to: brewmaster`at`mhtg.org Pre-registered entries will be accepted at the competition site. Entries can also be shipped to: Big & Huge c/o Wine and Hop Shop 1931 Monroe Street Madison, WI 53711 The Best of Show beer will be awarded the coveted WOOLY MAMMOTH plaque. The HAIRLESS MOUSE award for the Best of the Cider, Mead, and Sake category returns again this year. Awards and prizes will be presented to the top three finishers in each category. More details and entry forms can be found at: http://www.mhtg.org Please contact me if you have questions or are interested in judging/stewarding. The Big & Huge is a BJCP sanctioned event. Cheers, Mark Garthwaite, Big & Huge Czar (608) 298-9928 brewmaster`at`mhtg.org ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Preiser Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 10:29:49 -0600 Subject: Great Lakes Region - NHC Judge & Steward Registration Great Lakes - NHC 1st Round Call for Judges & Stewards Judging for the Great Lakes region (MI, IL, WI, IN) of the NHC 1st Round will be held at Rock Bottom-Chicago (1 W Grand Ave., Chicago). Given the large number of entries expected, judging sessions are scheduled for Friday evening, all day Saturday, and Sunday morning, April 25-27, with the Friday and Sunday sessions being used only if required. Sessions will begin at 6:30PM on Friday, 9:00AM on Saturday, and 10:00AM on Sunday. Please plan to arrive 30 minutes early for sign-in and steward assignments. A breakfast of bagels, coffee, and juice, and a delicious lunch prepared by Rock Bottom's award winning chef, Chip Fegert, along with beers crafted by award winning brewer, Pete Crowley, will be provided Saturday. As a special treat, Ray Daniels, organizer of the Chicago Real Ale Festival and last fall's Planet Buzz mead festival, has graciously donated a selection of 12-15 commercial meads, including Planet Buzz award winners, for our tasting. Sampling will commence Saturday once judging wraps up for the day. Interested judges and stewards can register online at http://www.chibeer.org/NHC/ or can contact Judging Coordinator, Joe Preiser (joe`at`chibeer.org, 630-285-7688). ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 4/1/2003 - 4/2/2003 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 01:00:15 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Errors in the guidelines (Mike Dixon) 2. Base malt / increasing gravity / color (nlkanous`at`netscape.net) 3. 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition (Mark Garthwaite) 4. Great Lakes Region - NHC Judge & Steward Registration (Joe Preiser) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Dixon Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:26:46 -0500 Subject: Errors in the guidelines Thanks for all the replies. The 1A is certainly in error, the category 5 I saw as a inconsistency (not necessarily an error). To Jay, I stand by my statement "there is no possible way that beer FG can be lower than the SG of distilled alcohol" and I agree with and understand your statement "And while you might not believe my math, I have made dozens of high gravity concoctions over the years (meads, ciders, wines) where the final OG has finished below that of water." But please show me a beer concoction and the math that would allow the final gravity of an American Light Beer to be 0.098 as is widely published in the guidelines. The gravity could certainly be 0.998 or less, but that is not what the guidelines say. The guidelines are a full 900 points below that.... I think Jay took what I posted as saying beer could not got below the gravity of water, which I did not. It certainly can.... For the Category 5 inconsistency if one used Noonan as a base, the amount of roasted barley for a 60/- is about 1.5%, 70/- is about 1.3%, and 80/- is about 1%. Without taking into account caramelization (which I should), the SRM's as calculated by the Recipator (since it was handy) using Noonan's weights and his OG's were 60/- 7SRM, 70/- 7SRM, and 80/- 7 SRM. Now I am pretty sure ProMash and StrangeBrew would come up with slightly different numbers, but you will not achieve greater colorization from the caramelization of the first runnings from a smaller beer than that of a larger beer. If traditional fly sparging, the first runnings of all the beers should be very similar in gravity provided the same grist/water ratio was utilized in all the mashes. If those first runnings are then caramelized similarly, then they should yeild similar increases in color. I can see the point scale increasing, and not linearly, but not the difference from 34 to 19 (50/- to 70/-) with an OG increase of only 6 - 10 points. Anyway, the point of my post was not to discuss whether I knew what I was talking about or not, but for someone who was working on these issues to investigate and make the decision to leave them as they are, or to change them. I still believe 1A to be in error, and category 5 to be inconsistent. Cheers, Mike Dixon Wake Forest, NC ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nlkanous`at`netscape.net Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:10:37 -0500 Subject: Base malt / increasing gravity / color Hmmmm.. Jay Hirsch and John Tull both assert that adding a larger proportion of base malt to a beer will result in a lighter colored beer. I'm not convinced that this is in fact the case. They both assert that you're diluting the color malts with more base malt and "of course it would be lighter". Let's take a look at an example, just to be sure. Let's make an English Bitter with nothing but pale ale malt. Well, okay let's add 1 oz of black malt for "color". Now, I'm going to use the same approach to make an IPA but it will be all pale ale malt with again, 1 ounce of black malt for color. Now, I like my bitters to be quaffable so I'm looking at an OG of 1.036 and I like my IPA's to be "stout" in comparison and so let's make the IPA to an OG of 1.072 (twice as big). I would bet that you're going to see a significant difference in favor of the IPA being darker. This is an extreme comparison, but is used only as an example of where the logic fails to support the argument. Yes, to a very small extent I could see that moving up in gravity within a particular style as was being discussed could lead to some "dilution" of the color malts but I'm not sure I agree that it would result in a color dilution from 12-34 SRM to 10 to 19SRM. You're going to have to dramatically increase base malt to decrease a beers color from 34 to 19 just by increasing gravity. Sorry guys but I agree that this is a color change that won't be entirely attributable to "dilution" and is at least worth a look. nathan in madison, wi __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promos=380455 ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Garthwaite Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:16:16 -0800 Subject: 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild is proud to sponsor the 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition! The Big & Huge is a competion for high gravity beers. Entries for Big Ale and Big Lager categories range from an OG of 1.050 to 1.060. Huge Ale and Huge Lager categories are for OG's greater than 1.060. Ciders, meads, and sakes above an OG of 1.050 are accepted in a single category. When: Saturday May 3, 2003 at 10:00 am - 4:00 pm Where: JT Whitney's Pub & Brewery in Madison, WI Entry Deadline is Wednesday April 30th. To preregister, deliver or email a copy of the registration form for each entry before April 30th to: Mark Garthwaite, Big & Huge Czar 617 Piper Drive Madison, WI 53711 or by email (preferred method) to: brewmaster`at`mhtg.org Pre-registered entries will be accepted at the competition site. Entries can also be shipped to: Big & Huge c/o Wine and Hop Shop 1931 Monroe Street Madison, WI 53711 The Best of Show beer will be awarded the coveted WOOLY MAMMOTH plaque. The HAIRLESS MOUSE award for the Best of the Cider, Mead, and Sake category returns again this year. Awards and prizes will be presented to the top three finishers in each category. More details and entry forms can be found at: http://www.mhtg.org Please contact me if you have questions or are interested in judging/stewarding. The Big & Huge is a BJCP sanctioned event. Cheers, Mark Garthwaite, Big & Huge Czar (608) 298-9928 brewmaster`at`mhtg.org ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Preiser Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 10:29:49 -0600 Subject: Great Lakes Region - NHC Judge & Steward Registration Great Lakes - NHC 1st Round Call for Judges & Stewards Judging for the Great Lakes region (MI, IL, WI, IN) of the NHC 1st Round will be held at Rock Bottom-Chicago (1 W Grand Ave., Chicago). Given the large number of entries expected, judging sessions are scheduled for Friday evening, all day Saturday, and Sunday morning, April 25-27, with the Friday and Sunday sessions being used only if required. Sessions will begin at 6:30PM on Friday, 9:00AM on Saturday, and 10:00AM on Sunday. Please plan to arrive 30 minutes early for sign-in and steward assignments. A breakfast of bagels, coffee, and juice, and a delicious lunch prepared by Rock Bottom's award winning chef, Chip Fegert, along with beers crafted by award winning brewer, Pete Crowley, will be provided Saturday. As a special treat, Ray Daniels, organizer of the Chicago Real Ale Festival and last fall's Planet Buzz mead festival, has graciously donated a selection of 12-15 commercial meads, including Planet Buzz award winners, for our tasting. Sampling will commence Saturday once judging wraps up for the day. Interested judges and stewards can register online at http://www.chibeer.org/NHC/ or can contact Judging Coordinator, Joe Preiser (joe`at`chibeer.org, 630-285-7688). ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************