Subject: Digest for the period 3/28/2003 - 3/29/2003 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 01:02:28 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. AHA East Region First Round Call for Judges (Krajewski, Michael) 2. Re: Errors in the guidelines (Ed Westemeier) 3. Re:1A American Lager L/S/P (David Houseman) 4. Mike's comments on errors in the guidelines (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) 5. Errors in the guidelines (Steve Casselman) 6. Re: Digest for the period 3/26/2003 - 3/27/2003 (John C. Tull) 7. Call for Judges (Northeast Regional) (mjkid`at`rochester.rr.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Krajewski, Michael Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:41:56 -0500 Subject: AHA East Region First Round Call for Judges Due to the amount of emails I have had returned as non deliverable for various reasons (bad ISP, outdated email addresses, etc.), I'm hoping the people I have not been able to contact, or do not have an email account will see this. The Cleveland area home brew clubs, and organizers of the 2003 AHA National Home Brew Competition would like to invite all the BJCP judges to come and judge the first round of competition to be held at JW Dover in Westlake Ohio on April 25th and 26th. The first session will begin Friday night the 25th between 6 and 6:30 PM and judge meads, S/H/V, smoked beers, fruit beers, and any other palate killers. The Saturday sessions will begin 9 to 9:30 AM, and the second will start about 1:30 PM after lunch, which will be provided. We will have a banquet on Saturday with a main meat dish or two and side dishes, appetizers, desserts, etc. provided by the local club members. The local micro breweries will be providing beer, as well as home brewed beer from members of local clubs. Feel free to bring some with you to share with everyone. Should you wish to spend the night, JW Dover has reserved a block of rooms at the Westlake Marriott just a few minutes from the hotel, literally.! There are 5 suites and 5 double rooms available, suites are approximately 90 to 95 dollars per night and doubles are 59 per night. Each suite will sleep 3-4 people comfortably. You can go to www.jwdover.com for details about the hotel and directions to JW Dover. If the rooms happen to be booked, JW Dover is able to add rooms, but you need to have your room booked by April 11th to secure the rates above. You can respond to me via email kujo`at`access4less.net or call my house 216-749-0480 if you wish to take part in this event. Hopefully, if things go well, this will become an annual event for us in Cleveland. Please do not respond to this email. Please use the other email address listed previously. Please try to respond by April 9th so we can create judging flights. Please also let me know what style(s) you have entered so we can adjust the flights accordingly. Please also let me know which styles you feel most comfortable judging. We will try to accommodate requests, so the sooner you can get back to me, the more likely it will be that you will get what you want. Hope to see everyone on the 25th and 26th. Mike Krajewski East Region Judge Coordinators Kujo`at`access4less.net If you have received multiple emails with this invitation, I apologize. My ISP and I aren't getting along very well these days. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Westemeier Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 06:55:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Errors in the guidelines On Thursday, March 27, Mike Dixon wrote: > > IIRC someone was working on revising the guidelines. While preparing > for a > retake of the exam, I noticed a couple of errors/inconsistencies. I > though > I would mention them here and perhaps they would make it to the proper > person for review... Thanks, Mike. The BJCP has a Style Guide Committee that is currently evaluating a number of updates to the guidelines. Anyone with suggested changes should send them to the committee chair, Scott Birdwell (defalcos`at`ev1.net) for consideration. We request that if you have a suggested change, please give a concise rationale for it, as Mike did. Ed Westemeier communication_director`at`bjcp.org ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:42:06 -0500 Subject: Re:1A American Lager L/S/P Eric, yes, the entrant needs to specify whether the American Lager is a light, standard or premium. At least that was what was expected. Of course any competition could chose to let the judges guess ;-)) The guidelines should be modified to make this clear. Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:05:05 -0500 Subject: Mike's comments on errors in the guidelines > >1) In category 1A http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide01.html the FG is listed as >0.098 and should be 0.998 (or some other decimal combination that begins >with 0.9XX). >According to this >http://albumen.stanford.edu/library/monographs/sunbeam/chap08.html the >second distillation of alcohol only yeilds a SG of 0.825, so there is no >possible way that beer FG can be lower than the SG of distilled alcohol. If >water (1.000) is added, then it only brings the value closer to 1.000. Did you note the printing date on this manuscript? It's 1864. I've reviewed a PILE of old brewing texts and there is a lot of bad information in old ones. They all need to be taken with a grain of salt. While alcohol and water are miscible (i.e. 1L H20 added to 1L alcohol doesn't result in 2L of final volume due to molecular adhesion between the 2 liquids) their additive relationships for gravity are roughly linear. so adding 5% of alcohol to 95% water would yield an OG of ... 0.05 * .825 + 0.95 * 1.000 = 0.04125 + 0.95 = .99125 Basically the entire reason that the gravity of a beer is lowered is because you convert a solid in solution (sugar) which raises the OG of the solution above that of water, to a liquid whose density is lower than water (i.e. alcohol). Gravity is in reality a weight based measure of relative densities of liquid solutions. When you remove something that makes the solution denser and replace it with something that is less dense it lowers the overall density of the solution. And while you might not believe my math, I have made dozens of high gravity concoctions over the years (meads, ciders, wines) where the final OG has finished below that of water. >2) In category 5 http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide05.html the color of the >beers is not consistent througout the subcategories. 5A lists 12-34 SRM >while 5B and 5C both list 10-19 SRM. The beer should not get lighter as the >OG and body increase. umm, why not? If you increase the amount of base malt in the beer (2 row pale in this case) to increase the end alcohol content, but do not adjust the amount of coloring malts to maintain the seem ratio of coloring malt to base malt, then the net effect will be to dilute the coloring contribution of the color malt by lowering it's overall percentage in the total grist. So it is not at all contradictory that a beer can get lighter as the OG and ABV increase. hope this helps, Jay Hersh Grand Master Judge Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Casselman Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:32:28 -0800 Subject: Errors in the guidelines Yes you are right about the 1A category. An FG of .09 would float out of your glass. I would say it should be 1.002. I don't think any beer is going to be under 1.000. As far as the Scottish Light goes it is light in body. It is more like a mild and so is darker than the heavy. I do think the numbers are a bit high on the high end but the low end is about right. Steve > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Mike Dixon Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 09:03:29 -0500 > Subject: Errors in the guidelines > > > IIRC someone was working on revising the guidelines. While preparing for a > retake of the exam, I noticed a couple of errors/inconsistencies. I though > I would mention them here and perhaps they would make it to the proper > person for review... > > 1) In category 1A http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide01.html the FG is listed as > 0.098 and should be 0.998 (or some other decimal combination that begins > with 0.9XX). > According to this > http://albumen.stanford.edu/library/monographs/sunbeam/chap08.html the > second distillation of alcohol only yeilds a SG of 0.825, so there is no > possible way that beer FG can be lower than the SG of distilled alcohol. If > water (1.000) is added, then it only brings the value closer to 1.000. > > 2) In category 5 http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide05.html the color of the > beers is not consistent througout the subcategories. 5A lists 12-34 SRM > while 5B and 5C both list 10-19 SRM. The beer should not get lighter as the > OG and body increase. > > Someone may have already pointed those out.... > > Cheers, > Mike Dixon > Wake Forest, NC > ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:31:27 -0800 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 3/26/2003 - 3/27/2003 Mike pointed out an error on the American Lagers, but he was not correct in the assertion below. Color is not simply a product of the amount of malt, or of the gravity of the beer. What is missing is the fact that a higher proportion of darker malts (e.g., crystal or roasted malt) can be found in the grain bill versus the other two beers in the style. If you put 5 lbs. of 2-row, 0.5 lbs. of 70L crystal, and 0.25 lbs. of roasted malt, you will have a beer in the neighborhood of 1.030 O.G. (5 gals.) and 18 SRM. Now, for a heavy, you lose the roasted, increase the crystal to 1 lb., and increase the 2-row to 6 lbs., you now have a beer with 1.037 O.G. and an SRM of 11. Not everything in brewing is linear. Cheers, John On Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003, at 22:03 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: > 2) In category 5 http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide05.html the color of the > beers is not consistent througout the subcategories. 5A lists 12-34 SRM > while 5B and 5C both list 10-19 SRM. The beer should not get lighter > as the > OG and body increase. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mjkid`at`rochester.rr.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:51:01 -0500 Subject: Call for Judges (Northeast Regional) Greetings Beerlings, The Upstate New York Homebrewers Association is pleased to be once again hosting the AHA Northeast Regionals. Judging will be held Saturday, April 26 and Sunday, April 27 in lovely Rochester, New York. Judging will be held at Rohrbach Brewing Company, 3859 Buffalo Road, Rochester NY 14624. Sessions will begin at 9:00 Am and 1:00 PM both days. Lunch will be served at the brewpub. Come on out and help us judge and/or steward. We have an online registration form to make things easy. Go to http://www.unyha.com/2003_nhc_first_round.htm , and click on the on-line registration link. Or drop me an email at webmaster`at`unyha.com . Hope to see many of you there! Mike Kidulich Upstate New York Homebrewers Association ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 3/28/2003 - 3/29/2003 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 01:02:28 -0500 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. AHA East Region First Round Call for Judges (Krajewski, Michael) 2. Re: Errors in the guidelines (Ed Westemeier) 3. Re:1A American Lager L/S/P (David Houseman) 4. Mike's comments on errors in the guidelines (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) 5. Errors in the guidelines (Steve Casselman) 6. Re: Digest for the period 3/26/2003 - 3/27/2003 (John C. Tull) 7. Call for Judges (Northeast Regional) (mjkid`at`rochester.rr.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Krajewski, Michael Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:41:56 -0500 Subject: AHA East Region First Round Call for Judges Due to the amount of emails I have had returned as non deliverable for various reasons (bad ISP, outdated email addresses, etc.), I'm hoping the people I have not been able to contact, or do not have an email account will see this. The Cleveland area home brew clubs, and organizers of the 2003 AHA National Home Brew Competition would like to invite all the BJCP judges to come and judge the first round of competition to be held at JW Dover in Westlake Ohio on April 25th and 26th. The first session will begin Friday night the 25th between 6 and 6:30 PM and judge meads, S/H/V, smoked beers, fruit beers, and any other palate killers. The Saturday sessions will begin 9 to 9:30 AM, and the second will start about 1:30 PM after lunch, which will be provided. We will have a banquet on Saturday with a main meat dish or two and side dishes, appetizers, desserts, etc. provided by the local club members. The local micro breweries will be providing beer, as well as home brewed beer from members of local clubs. Feel free to bring some with you to share with everyone. Should you wish to spend the night, JW Dover has reserved a block of rooms at the Westlake Marriott just a few minutes from the hotel, literally.! There are 5 suites and 5 double rooms available, suites are approximately 90 to 95 dollars per night and doubles are 59 per night. Each suite will sleep 3-4 people comfortably. You can go to www.jwdover.com for details about the hotel and directions to JW Dover. If the rooms happen to be booked, JW Dover is able to add rooms, but you need to have your room booked by April 11th to secure the rates above. You can respond to me via email kujo`at`access4less.net or call my house 216-749-0480 if you wish to take part in this event. Hopefully, if things go well, this will become an annual event for us in Cleveland. Please do not respond to this email. Please use the other email address listed previously. Please try to respond by April 9th so we can create judging flights. Please also let me know what style(s) you have entered so we can adjust the flights accordingly. Please also let me know which styles you feel most comfortable judging. We will try to accommodate requests, so the sooner you can get back to me, the more likely it will be that you will get what you want. Hope to see everyone on the 25th and 26th. Mike Krajewski East Region Judge Coordinators Kujo`at`access4less.net If you have received multiple emails with this invitation, I apologize. My ISP and I aren't getting along very well these days. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Westemeier Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 06:55:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Errors in the guidelines On Thursday, March 27, Mike Dixon wrote: > > IIRC someone was working on revising the guidelines. While preparing > for a > retake of the exam, I noticed a couple of errors/inconsistencies. I > though > I would mention them here and perhaps they would make it to the proper > person for review... Thanks, Mike. The BJCP has a Style Guide Committee that is currently evaluating a number of updates to the guidelines. Anyone with suggested changes should send them to the committee chair, Scott Birdwell (defalcos`at`ev1.net) for consideration. We request that if you have a suggested change, please give a concise rationale for it, as Mike did. Ed Westemeier communication_director`at`bjcp.org ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Houseman Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:42:06 -0500 Subject: Re:1A American Lager L/S/P Eric, yes, the entrant needs to specify whether the American Lager is a light, standard or premium. At least that was what was expected. Of course any competition could chose to let the judges guess ;-)) The guidelines should be modified to make this clear. Dave Houseman ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:05:05 -0500 Subject: Mike's comments on errors in the guidelines > >1) In category 1A http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide01.html the FG is listed as >0.098 and should be 0.998 (or some other decimal combination that begins >with 0.9XX). >According to this >http://albumen.stanford.edu/library/monographs/sunbeam/chap08.html the >second distillation of alcohol only yeilds a SG of 0.825, so there is no >possible way that beer FG can be lower than the SG of distilled alcohol. If >water (1.000) is added, then it only brings the value closer to 1.000. Did you note the printing date on this manuscript? It's 1864. I've reviewed a PILE of old brewing texts and there is a lot of bad information in old ones. They all need to be taken with a grain of salt. While alcohol and water are miscible (i.e. 1L H20 added to 1L alcohol doesn't result in 2L of final volume due to molecular adhesion between the 2 liquids) their additive relationships for gravity are roughly linear. so adding 5% of alcohol to 95% water would yield an OG of ... 0.05 * .825 + 0.95 * 1.000 = 0.04125 + 0.95 = .99125 Basically the entire reason that the gravity of a beer is lowered is because you convert a solid in solution (sugar) which raises the OG of the solution above that of water, to a liquid whose density is lower than water (i.e. alcohol). Gravity is in reality a weight based measure of relative densities of liquid solutions. When you remove something that makes the solution denser and replace it with something that is less dense it lowers the overall density of the solution. And while you might not believe my math, I have made dozens of high gravity concoctions over the years (meads, ciders, wines) where the final OG has finished below that of water. >2) In category 5 http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide05.html the color of the >beers is not consistent througout the subcategories. 5A lists 12-34 SRM >while 5B and 5C both list 10-19 SRM. The beer should not get lighter as the >OG and body increase. umm, why not? If you increase the amount of base malt in the beer (2 row pale in this case) to increase the end alcohol content, but do not adjust the amount of coloring malts to maintain the seem ratio of coloring malt to base malt, then the net effect will be to dilute the coloring contribution of the color malt by lowering it's overall percentage in the total grist. So it is not at all contradictory that a beer can get lighter as the OG and ABV increase. hope this helps, Jay Hersh Grand Master Judge Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Casselman Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:32:28 -0800 Subject: Errors in the guidelines Yes you are right about the 1A category. An FG of .09 would float out of your glass. I would say it should be 1.002. I don't think any beer is going to be under 1.000. As far as the Scottish Light goes it is light in body. It is more like a mild and so is darker than the heavy. I do think the numbers are a bit high on the high end but the low end is about right. Steve > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Mike Dixon Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 09:03:29 -0500 > Subject: Errors in the guidelines > > > IIRC someone was working on revising the guidelines. While preparing for a > retake of the exam, I noticed a couple of errors/inconsistencies. I though > I would mention them here and perhaps they would make it to the proper > person for review... > > 1) In category 1A http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide01.html the FG is listed as > 0.098 and should be 0.998 (or some other decimal combination that begins > with 0.9XX). > According to this > http://albumen.stanford.edu/library/monographs/sunbeam/chap08.html the > second distillation of alcohol only yeilds a SG of 0.825, so there is no > possible way that beer FG can be lower than the SG of distilled alcohol. If > water (1.000) is added, then it only brings the value closer to 1.000. > > 2) In category 5 http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide05.html the color of the > beers is not consistent througout the subcategories. 5A lists 12-34 SRM > while 5B and 5C both list 10-19 SRM. The beer should not get lighter as the > OG and body increase. > > Someone may have already pointed those out.... > > Cheers, > Mike Dixon > Wake Forest, NC > ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:31:27 -0800 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 3/26/2003 - 3/27/2003 Mike pointed out an error on the American Lagers, but he was not correct in the assertion below. Color is not simply a product of the amount of malt, or of the gravity of the beer. What is missing is the fact that a higher proportion of darker malts (e.g., crystal or roasted malt) can be found in the grain bill versus the other two beers in the style. If you put 5 lbs. of 2-row, 0.5 lbs. of 70L crystal, and 0.25 lbs. of roasted malt, you will have a beer in the neighborhood of 1.030 O.G. (5 gals.) and 18 SRM. Now, for a heavy, you lose the roasted, increase the crystal to 1 lb., and increase the 2-row to 6 lbs., you now have a beer with 1.037 O.G. and an SRM of 11. Not everything in brewing is linear. Cheers, John On Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003, at 22:03 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: > 2) In category 5 http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide05.html the color of the > beers is not consistent througout the subcategories. 5A lists 12-34 SRM > while 5B and 5C both list 10-19 SRM. The beer should not get lighter > as the > OG and body increase. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mjkid`at`rochester.rr.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:51:01 -0500 Subject: Call for Judges (Northeast Regional) Greetings Beerlings, The Upstate New York Homebrewers Association is pleased to be once again hosting the AHA Northeast Regionals. Judging will be held Saturday, April 26 and Sunday, April 27 in lovely Rochester, New York. Judging will be held at Rohrbach Brewing Company, 3859 Buffalo Road, Rochester NY 14624. Sessions will begin at 9:00 Am and 1:00 PM both days. Lunch will be served at the brewpub. Come on out and help us judge and/or steward. We have an online registration form to make things easy. Go to http://www.unyha.com/2003_nhc_first_round.htm , and click on the on-line registration link. Or drop me an email at webmaster`at`unyha.com . Hope to see many of you there! Mike Kidulich Upstate New York Homebrewers Association ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************