Subject: Digest for the period 2/15/2003 - 2/16/2003
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:03:58 -0500

Table of contents
----------------------------------------------------------------------

  1. Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (David Houseman) 

  2. Re: Digest for the period 2/13/2003 - 2/14/2003 (Tina 
     Weymann) 

  3. Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (Mike Dixon) 

  4. Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 
     (hollen`at`woodsprite.com) 

  5. RE: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (Cristina 
     Collier) (Jamil Zainasheff) 

  6. AHA TechTalk Competition Reminder March 15, 2003 (Jon 
     Douglas) 

  7. Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 
     (stihlerunits`at`mosquitonet.com) 

  8. Competition Entry Numbers (Stephen Johnson) 



----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Houseman  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:56:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 


Chris,

The software package we use, BCO (Beer Competition Organizer), prints bottle
labels as a first step.  There are 7 per number printed, 2 for each of up to
three bottles --- one for the cap and one for the neck of the bottle -- and
one for the entry form itself.  The numbers are printed in a random order.
So when organizing entries, unpacking and labeling the bottles, the labels
are applied they can be applied with random numbers.  We do however put the
bottles in the cases in numerical order to help find them during the
competition.  The software which prints the pull sheets places the beers in
a preferred pull order based on hoppiness, strength, etc., although this can
be overridden by the organizer or by the judges at the table.  Sometimes
organizers will apply the entry numbers in order so that there aren't gaps
in the cases, but we've never had an issue with one entrant with consecutive
numbers being advantaged or disadvantaged.  Even as an organizer I can't
remember the entry number for 100+ entries.

Dave Houseman



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tina Weymann  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:03:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Digest for the period 2/13/2003 - 2/14/2003 


Cristina brings up a good point, particularly because the same personnel
often serve as entry "bursters" and as judges, so there is indeed the
potential for identifying the brewer during the judging process.

A good and fairly easy way to avoid potential problems with judges and
other competition staff associating a particular range of entry numbers
with a particular brewer is to use randomly generated 4-digit numbers
rather than the usual sequential 4-digit series.  A useful generator can
be found at http://www.random.org/nform.html.  Hope this is helpful!

Tina Weymann
Upstate New York Homebrewers Association
Rochester, New York

Original post:
From: Cristina Collier  Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:27:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 

<snip>

I have an interesting question for the collective.  I'd love to get
some discussion going on this topic!

In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique
number.
During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the
entries
are probably handled together. I'll also assume that most competitions
are using a computer to organize the contest.  Now when the computer
prints out the flight sheets for the competition, there is going to be
some sort applied to the print.  It may be a sort specified by the
program (entry#, category, cub cat, or some combination) or it may
simply be a FIFO sort.  Regardless, I suspect that the brewers who
have
their beers tagged first will probably sort toward the beginning of
the
flight and those tagged last (walk-ins) will sort toward the end of
the
flights. 

Now does anyone out there think that this creates an advantage or
disadvantage to brewers because their beers may sort in the same place
in each of the flights they have entries in? I guess that depends on
how strongly you feel about whether or not a beer's place in a flight
can affect its score. I bet this is a separate debate that probably
has
been discussed in the forum in the past.  I'm certainly interested in
that debate, but I am more interested in what competitions out there
are making special efforts to address this issue. 

Has anyone ever even thought about this before?  What are you doing in
the registration process to avoid this issue?  How are flight sheets
being printed to avoid this?  The questions are really rhetorical and
the answers seem obvious to me with a little work.  The real question
is what competitions are going through an effort or not?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks,
Chris Collier
Atlanta, GA  

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Dixon  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:25:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 


>From: Cristina Collier
> In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique number.
> During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
> entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the entries
> are probably handled together.

Not at the upcoming Shamrock Competition www.hbd.org/carboy/shamrock.htm.
Numbers are assigned by Category. Category 1 gets a 100 series, category 10
at 1000 series, category 19 a 1900 series, etc.  I intitiated this number
series idea last year.  It makes it extremely difficult for anyone to figure
out the number that might be on their beers.  As organizer last year I could
not have told you which beers were belonged to what brewer except for one
which was the only entry in that particular category.


I'll also assume that most competitions
> are using a computer to organize the contest.  Now when the computer
> prints out the flight sheets for the competition, there is going to be
> some sort applied to the print.  It may be a sort specified by the
> program (entry#, category, cub cat, or some combination) or it may
> simply be a FIFO sort.  Regardless, I suspect that the brewers who have
> their beers tagged first will probably sort toward the beginning of the
> flight and those tagged last (walk-ins) will sort toward the end of the
> flights.

That is still true to an extent, but judges decide the flight order
generally based upon the subcategories. Usually the ones that affect the
palate the least are judged first.

>
> Now does anyone out there think that this creates an advantage or
> disadvantage to brewers because their beers may sort in the same place
> in each of the flights they have entries in?

Sure, first in a flight is a tough place to be.  That beer is the marker for
all the rest. Last can be affected by fatigue, but depending upon the
subcategory, that beer could be the first one that was entered.

>
> Has anyone ever even thought about this before?

You betcha....

>What are you doing in
> the registration process to avoid this issue?

Above...

>How are flight sheets
> being printed to avoid this?


You can scramble the number order if it makes the organizer and registrar
feel better.

The questions are really rhetorical and
> the answers seem obvious to me with a little work.  The real question
> is what competitions are going through an effort or not?


Ours is March 15, drive up to Raleigh and see.
www.hbd.org/carboy/shamrock.htm

Cheers,
Mike



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hollen`at`woodsprite.com  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:06:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 



I tend to agree that placement in the flight can affect how a particular
beer is judged.  Very early and the judges are not yet well calibrated,
too late and they may be experiencing palate fatigue or general burnout
from too many beers in one flight.

What do we do about it in America's Finest City Homebrew Competition?
Nothing at all on purpose.  Someone is going to get an advantage because
of order in the flight.  The question is, who?  Well, if we do anything to
change the "normal" order, then we are giving someone preference by our
choice in who we choose to prefer.  Over 90% of our over 300 entries are
made online, while only a very small amount of entries come in with paper
entries that we enter into the database by hand.  The sort for each
category only sorts into category, so the order of the entries on the
flight sheet is not in entry number, but in the order they are in the
database without sort.  This means that the walk-in entries are going to
be last in the flight because they get entered last in the database.
However, the entry number for each beer has no correspondence to the order
they were entered online, or whether they are a walk-in.  It is strictly
by the order we pull them out of the cooler, which randomizes the entry
numbers.  And, yes, a single brewer will tend to get consecutive numbers
on their beers.

Is being last/first in the flight an advantage or disadvantage?  All
depends on the flight and the judges.

My take is leave it alone.  If you purposefully change the sort order to
favor one or the other, you could be accused of tampering with the odds.
If you leave it up to the computer and a "kind of" randomness, then no
such accusations can be raised.  And, if you do any kind of sort, then you
are favoring somebody by choice.  Besides, the judges are free to ask the
stewards to bring the beers in any order they choose, thereby cancelling
any ordering you have chosen to present.

regards,
dion (AFCHBC 5 time organizer and online entry creator)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jamil Zainasheff  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:08:40 -0800
Subject: RE: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (Cristina Collier) 


Having entered quite a few competitions and judged in a fair number, I can
say without doubt that flight order is critical. I know many brewers who try
to enter their beers at the very last moment, in order to capture the last
spots in the flights.

A number of competitions do randomize the entry/flight order, I am told.
However, I think the majority do nothing about it.

I'd urge anyone running a competition to look at:

- randomizing flight order
- storing all entries cold from the time they are received
- serving all entries at the same temperature for the same style

JZ

> In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique number.
> During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
> entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the entries
> are probably handled together. I'll also assume that most competitions
> are using a computer to organize the contest.  Now when the computer
> prints out the flight sheets for the competition, there is going to be
> some sort applied to the print.  It may be a sort specified by the
> program (entry#, category, cub cat, or some combination) or it may
> simply be a FIFO sort.  Regardless, I suspect that the brewers who have
> their beers tagged first will probably sort toward the beginning of the
> flight and those tagged last (walk-ins) will sort toward the end of the
> flights.
>
> Now does anyone out there think that this creates an advantage or
> disadvantage to brewers because their beers may sort in the same place
> in each of the flights they have entries in? I guess that depends on
> how strongly you feel about whether or not a beer's place in a flight
> can affect its score. I bet this is a separate debate that probably has
> been discussed in the forum in the past.  I'm certainly interested in
> that debate, but I am more interested in what competitions out there
> are making special efforts to address this issue.

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jon Douglas  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:00:58 -0700
Subject: AHA TechTalk Competition Reminder March 15, 2003 


Dear Fellow Judges & Homebrewers:

As the Judge Coordinator for the AHA TechTalk Competition that Foam on the 
Range of Denver, CO is hosting on March 15, 2003, I would like to invite you 
to judge and enter our competition.  The competition promises to be 
excellent with sponsorship from the AHA www.beertown.org, White Labs Yeast 
www.whitelabs.com, Beer at Home Homebrew Supply www.beerathome.com and John 
Palmer author of How to Brew www.howtobrew.com!

The competition will be limited to four subcategories, Categories 6A, 6B and 
6C American Pale Ales and Category 10D American Brown Ale.  Because the 
TechTalk Community asked that the competition be limited to those who can 
participate in TechTalk, you must be an AHA member to enter.  Entry fees are 
$5 for the first entry and $4 for additional entries.  Entry deadline is 
March 12, 2003 and entries should be shipped to:

AHA TechTalk “Ale to America” Competition
c/o Ruddell’s Custom Print
4853 South Quintero Circle
Aurora, CO 80015

You may send in your registration as a new AHA member with your entry.  Full 
rules and details can be found on our website at 
http://www.foamontherange.org/club_files/techtalkr1.pdf.

Judging will be held in Denver on March 15th, 2003 at 9.30AM.  Please email 
me at hopfenkopf`at`hotmail.com if you can help judge or steward.

Please email us at info`at`foamontherange.org if you have any questions.  
Please also forward this email to your fellow club members and anyone else 
you know who may be interested in entering.

Please forgive any cross-posts.

Thanks very much,

Jon Douglas
Foam on the Range
www.foamontherange.org
info`at`foamontherange.org






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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stihlerunits`at`mosquitonet.com  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:37:41 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 


Chris Collier wrote:

> In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique number.
> During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
> entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the entries
> are probably handled together. 

I can't speak for all homebrew competitions but for the one I organize
(i.e. the E.T. Barnette Homebrew Competition) this problem does not
arise.

Each entry is assigned a pseudo-random number. I say this is a pseudo-
random number because in my competition beers are subdivided into six
Classes and each Class is assigned a certain range of numbers to make
life easier for the stewards. For example, meads are assigned numbers
between 001 and 099, specialty/mixed styles are assigned values of 
800-899 etc.

 We have six envelopes containing six sets of numbered slips of paper.
 When an entry is received it a number is drawn from the appropriate
 envelope and that number is assigned to the entry. This number is
 then entered in the log and written onto three colored dots (yellow,
 blue and red). The dots are placed on the caps of each of the three
 entries and will be used to denote which flight the beer will be
 judged in. Again this is to make life easier for the steward.
 
 We have a fairly small competition (< 75 entries) and the random 
 numbers make it very difficult for remember a particular beer. In 
 fact, once I had entered the competition myself and didn't even
 know my weizen had placed second until I looked up the number.
 
 We do not allow walk-ins aren't allowed per se. All entries must be 
 received by a certain date which usually a Wednesday and the judge
 takes place on Saturday. We do, however, allow the judges to pre-
 register their beers. We require that the appropriate forms and 
 entry fee be mailed to in to use prior to the entry due date or at
 least before Saturday so that entry numbers may be assigned before 
 hand. Once the beers arrive it is then a simple matter to attach
 the dots to each bottle and place them with the rest of the entries.
 
 
 For each flight the judging sheets are handed out and the most
 experienced jmember of each judging group goes through the list
 of entries and selects the order in which the should be judged.
 Generally  speaking this is order of increasing strength of flavor.
 For example, if one is judging bitters then you probably would
 want to judge ordinary bitters prior English Pale Ales or IPAs.
 
 Well, I'm sure I've gone into far more detail than necessary but....
 At any rate, I hope this helps.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Scott Stihler
 Fairbanks, Alaska
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stephen Johnson  Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:01:44 -0600
Subject: Competition Entry Numbers 


Chris Collier in Atlanta asks for feedback on what different
competitions do to address the possible order effects that might come
about when creating pull lists for judging tables.

For the past 5 years, our competition has used the Beer Competition
Organizer (BCO) software developed by Barry DeLapp of Malvern, PA (I
think that's where he's located). I have information on how clubs can
acquire this software if they are interested. Feel free to e-mail me
directly (sjohnson3`at`comcast.net). One of the useful tools built into
this software is that it provides a random number assignment at the
front end of the entry log-in process. Numbers are printed on labels in
a random fashion based on an anticipated number of entries. While these
numbers are printed in "groups" or "clusters" initially by sheets of
numbers, it provides a first line of "defense" against one brewer's
beers all having a sequence of numbers that might potentially identify
that brewer later on during a competition. So, for example, a local
brewer A might enter 10 beers in our competition. It is possible that
his/her beers are the first 10 logged in by the competition staff. As
the numbers are assigned, the randomizing process of the printed labels
used might end up giving that brewer the following entry numbers:
12,40,5,7,15,20,3,1,33,17
(It is hard for me to provide a real example, but if one were to look
through our actual entry forms at the end of the login process prior to
a competition, brewers' entry numbers are spread out and appear to be
fairly random)

The second line of defense then comes when the pull lists are created,
and I believe that those are created in a random fashion as well. The
end result on a flight's pull list is that there is no obvious sequence
to the numbers, and lower numbers are not necessarily presented first on
that list.

The last line of defense might be how a club goes about logging in
entries in the first place, whether they do all their local entries
together or mix in out-of-town entries throughout the whole process.
This mixing, combined with assuring that the log-in workers are involved
only in that part of the process, are several other ways to help.
Finally, an organizer should attempt to assure that those members of the
competition staff who are privy to the numbers are from a select group
who should not be involved in any direct judging. This is not always
possible for some clubs where membership resources and volunteers are
stretched thin. But it is always something for an organizer and his/her
staff to keep in mind.

I suppose this sort of randomizing routine could be done manually by a
competition organizer and his/her staff, but it would seem to take some
time to assure this level of randomizing that the BCO software program
supplies. I'll be curious to hear how other clubs deal with this
important issue.

Steve Johnson
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN

Site of the Completely Relaxing and Joyous Homebrew Contest, April
11-21, 2003
See http://www.musiccitybrewers.com for more details and entry forms




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Subject: Digest for the period 2/15/2003 - 2/16/2003
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:03:58 -0500

Table of contents
----------------------------------------------------------------------

  1. Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (David Houseman) 

  2. Re: Digest for the period 2/13/2003 - 2/14/2003 (Tina 
     Weymann) 

  3. Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (Mike Dixon) 

  4. Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 
     (hollen`at`woodsprite.com) 

  5. RE: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (Cristina 
     Collier) (Jamil Zainasheff) 

  6. AHA TechTalk Competition Reminder March 15, 2003 (Jon 
     Douglas) 

  7. Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 
     (stihlerunits`at`mosquitonet.com) 

  8. Competition Entry Numbers (Stephen Johnson) 



----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Houseman  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:56:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 


Chris,

The software package we use, BCO (Beer Competition Organizer), prints bottle
labels as a first step.  There are 7 per number printed, 2 for each of up to
three bottles --- one for the cap and one for the neck of the bottle -- and
one for the entry form itself.  The numbers are printed in a random order.
So when organizing entries, unpacking and labeling the bottles, the labels
are applied they can be applied with random numbers.  We do however put the
bottles in the cases in numerical order to help find them during the
competition.  The software which prints the pull sheets places the beers in
a preferred pull order based on hoppiness, strength, etc., although this can
be overridden by the organizer or by the judges at the table.  Sometimes
organizers will apply the entry numbers in order so that there aren't gaps
in the cases, but we've never had an issue with one entrant with consecutive
numbers being advantaged or disadvantaged.  Even as an organizer I can't
remember the entry number for 100+ entries.

Dave Houseman



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tina Weymann  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:03:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Digest for the period 2/13/2003 - 2/14/2003 


Cristina brings up a good point, particularly because the same personnel
often serve as entry "bursters" and as judges, so there is indeed the
potential for identifying the brewer during the judging process.

A good and fairly easy way to avoid potential problems with judges and
other competition staff associating a particular range of entry numbers
with a particular brewer is to use randomly generated 4-digit numbers
rather than the usual sequential 4-digit series.  A useful generator can
be found at http://www.random.org/nform.html.  Hope this is helpful!

Tina Weymann
Upstate New York Homebrewers Association
Rochester, New York

Original post:
From: Cristina Collier  Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:27:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 

<snip>

I have an interesting question for the collective.  I'd love to get
some discussion going on this topic!

In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique
number.
During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the
entries
are probably handled together. I'll also assume that most competitions
are using a computer to organize the contest.  Now when the computer
prints out the flight sheets for the competition, there is going to be
some sort applied to the print.  It may be a sort specified by the
program (entry#, category, cub cat, or some combination) or it may
simply be a FIFO sort.  Regardless, I suspect that the brewers who
have
their beers tagged first will probably sort toward the beginning of
the
flight and those tagged last (walk-ins) will sort toward the end of
the
flights. 

Now does anyone out there think that this creates an advantage or
disadvantage to brewers because their beers may sort in the same place
in each of the flights they have entries in? I guess that depends on
how strongly you feel about whether or not a beer's place in a flight
can affect its score. I bet this is a separate debate that probably
has
been discussed in the forum in the past.  I'm certainly interested in
that debate, but I am more interested in what competitions out there
are making special efforts to address this issue. 

Has anyone ever even thought about this before?  What are you doing in
the registration process to avoid this issue?  How are flight sheets
being printed to avoid this?  The questions are really rhetorical and
the answers seem obvious to me with a little work.  The real question
is what competitions are going through an effort or not?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks,
Chris Collier
Atlanta, GA  

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Dixon  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:25:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 


>From: Cristina Collier
> In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique number.
> During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
> entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the entries
> are probably handled together.

Not at the upcoming Shamrock Competition www.hbd.org/carboy/shamrock.htm.
Numbers are assigned by Category. Category 1 gets a 100 series, category 10
at 1000 series, category 19 a 1900 series, etc.  I intitiated this number
series idea last year.  It makes it extremely difficult for anyone to figure
out the number that might be on their beers.  As organizer last year I could
not have told you which beers were belonged to what brewer except for one
which was the only entry in that particular category.


I'll also assume that most competitions
> are using a computer to organize the contest.  Now when the computer
> prints out the flight sheets for the competition, there is going to be
> some sort applied to the print.  It may be a sort specified by the
> program (entry#, category, cub cat, or some combination) or it may
> simply be a FIFO sort.  Regardless, I suspect that the brewers who have
> their beers tagged first will probably sort toward the beginning of the
> flight and those tagged last (walk-ins) will sort toward the end of the
> flights.

That is still true to an extent, but judges decide the flight order
generally based upon the subcategories. Usually the ones that affect the
palate the least are judged first.

>
> Now does anyone out there think that this creates an advantage or
> disadvantage to brewers because their beers may sort in the same place
> in each of the flights they have entries in?

Sure, first in a flight is a tough place to be.  That beer is the marker for
all the rest. Last can be affected by fatigue, but depending upon the
subcategory, that beer could be the first one that was entered.

>
> Has anyone ever even thought about this before?

You betcha....

>What are you doing in
> the registration process to avoid this issue?

Above...

>How are flight sheets
> being printed to avoid this?


You can scramble the number order if it makes the organizer and registrar
feel better.

The questions are really rhetorical and
> the answers seem obvious to me with a little work.  The real question
> is what competitions are going through an effort or not?


Ours is March 15, drive up to Raleigh and see.
www.hbd.org/carboy/shamrock.htm

Cheers,
Mike



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hollen`at`woodsprite.com  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:06:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 



I tend to agree that placement in the flight can affect how a particular
beer is judged.  Very early and the judges are not yet well calibrated,
too late and they may be experiencing palate fatigue or general burnout
from too many beers in one flight.

What do we do about it in America's Finest City Homebrew Competition?
Nothing at all on purpose.  Someone is going to get an advantage because
of order in the flight.  The question is, who?  Well, if we do anything to
change the "normal" order, then we are giving someone preference by our
choice in who we choose to prefer.  Over 90% of our over 300 entries are
made online, while only a very small amount of entries come in with paper
entries that we enter into the database by hand.  The sort for each
category only sorts into category, so the order of the entries on the
flight sheet is not in entry number, but in the order they are in the
database without sort.  This means that the walk-in entries are going to
be last in the flight because they get entered last in the database.
However, the entry number for each beer has no correspondence to the order
they were entered online, or whether they are a walk-in.  It is strictly
by the order we pull them out of the cooler, which randomizes the entry
numbers.  And, yes, a single brewer will tend to get consecutive numbers
on their beers.

Is being last/first in the flight an advantage or disadvantage?  All
depends on the flight and the judges.

My take is leave it alone.  If you purposefully change the sort order to
favor one or the other, you could be accused of tampering with the odds.
If you leave it up to the computer and a "kind of" randomness, then no
such accusations can be raised.  And, if you do any kind of sort, then you
are favoring somebody by choice.  Besides, the judges are free to ask the
stewards to bring the beers in any order they choose, thereby cancelling
any ordering you have chosen to present.

regards,
dion (AFCHBC 5 time organizer and online entry creator)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jamil Zainasheff  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:08:40 -0800
Subject: RE: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights (Cristina Collier) 


Having entered quite a few competitions and judged in a fair number, I can
say without doubt that flight order is critical. I know many brewers who try
to enter their beers at the very last moment, in order to capture the last
spots in the flights.

A number of competitions do randomize the entry/flight order, I am told.
However, I think the majority do nothing about it.

I'd urge anyone running a competition to look at:

- randomizing flight order
- storing all entries cold from the time they are received
- serving all entries at the same temperature for the same style

JZ

> In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique number.
> During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
> entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the entries
> are probably handled together. I'll also assume that most competitions
> are using a computer to organize the contest.  Now when the computer
> prints out the flight sheets for the competition, there is going to be
> some sort applied to the print.  It may be a sort specified by the
> program (entry#, category, cub cat, or some combination) or it may
> simply be a FIFO sort.  Regardless, I suspect that the brewers who have
> their beers tagged first will probably sort toward the beginning of the
> flight and those tagged last (walk-ins) will sort toward the end of the
> flights.
>
> Now does anyone out there think that this creates an advantage or
> disadvantage to brewers because their beers may sort in the same place
> in each of the flights they have entries in? I guess that depends on
> how strongly you feel about whether or not a beer's place in a flight
> can affect its score. I bet this is a separate debate that probably has
> been discussed in the forum in the past.  I'm certainly interested in
> that debate, but I am more interested in what competitions out there
> are making special efforts to address this issue.

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From: Jon Douglas  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:00:58 -0700
Subject: AHA TechTalk Competition Reminder March 15, 2003 


Dear Fellow Judges & Homebrewers:

As the Judge Coordinator for the AHA TechTalk Competition that Foam on the 
Range of Denver, CO is hosting on March 15, 2003, I would like to invite you 
to judge and enter our competition.  The competition promises to be 
excellent with sponsorship from the AHA www.beertown.org, White Labs Yeast 
www.whitelabs.com, Beer at Home Homebrew Supply www.beerathome.com and John 
Palmer author of How to Brew www.howtobrew.com!

The competition will be limited to four subcategories, Categories 6A, 6B and 
6C American Pale Ales and Category 10D American Brown Ale.  Because the 
TechTalk Community asked that the competition be limited to those who can 
participate in TechTalk, you must be an AHA member to enter.  Entry fees are 
$5 for the first entry and $4 for additional entries.  Entry deadline is 
March 12, 2003 and entries should be shipped to:

AHA TechTalk “Ale to America” Competition
c/o Ruddell’s Custom Print
4853 South Quintero Circle
Aurora, CO 80015

You may send in your registration as a new AHA member with your entry.  Full 
rules and details can be found on our website at 
http://www.foamontherange.org/club_files/techtalkr1.pdf.

Judging will be held in Denver on March 15th, 2003 at 9.30AM.  Please email 
me at hopfenkopf`at`hotmail.com if you can help judge or steward.

Please email us at info`at`foamontherange.org if you have any questions.  
Please also forward this email to your fellow club members and anyone else 
you know who may be interested in entering.

Please forgive any cross-posts.

Thanks very much,

Jon Douglas
Foam on the Range
www.foamontherange.org
info`at`foamontherange.org






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From: stihlerunits`at`mosquitonet.com  Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:37:41 -0900 (AKST)
Subject: Competition Entry Numbers and Flights 


Chris Collier wrote:

> In a typical homebrew contest, bottles are tagged with a unique number.
> During the tagging process, I think it's safe to assume multiple
> entries for a single brewer receive consecutive numbers, as the entries
> are probably handled together. 

I can't speak for all homebrew competitions but for the one I organize
(i.e. the E.T. Barnette Homebrew Competition) this problem does not
arise.

Each entry is assigned a pseudo-random number. I say this is a pseudo-
random number because in my competition beers are subdivided into six
Classes and each Class is assigned a certain range of numbers to make
life easier for the stewards. For example, meads are assigned numbers
between 001 and 099, specialty/mixed styles are assigned values of 
800-899 etc.

 We have six envelopes containing six sets of numbered slips of paper.
 When an entry is received it a number is drawn from the appropriate
 envelope and that number is assigned to the entry. This number is
 then entered in the log and written onto three colored dots (yellow,
 blue and red). The dots are placed on the caps of each of the three
 entries and will be used to denote which flight the beer will be
 judged in. Again this is to make life easier for the steward.
 
 We have a fairly small competition (< 75 entries) and the random 
 numbers make it very difficult for remember a particular beer. In 
 fact, once I had entered the competition myself and didn't even
 know my weizen had placed second until I looked up the number.
 
 We do not allow walk-ins aren't allowed per se. All entries must be 
 received by a certain date which usually a Wednesday and the judge
 takes place on Saturday. We do, however, allow the judges to pre-
 register their beers. We require that the appropriate forms and 
 entry fee be mailed to in to use prior to the entry due date or at
 least before Saturday so that entry numbers may be assigned before 
 hand. Once the beers arrive it is then a simple matter to attach
 the dots to each bottle and place them with the rest of the entries.
 
 
 For each flight the judging sheets are handed out and the most
 experienced jmember of each judging group goes through the list
 of entries and selects the order in which the should be judged.
 Generally  speaking this is order of increasing strength of flavor.
 For example, if one is judging bitters then you probably would
 want to judge ordinary bitters prior English Pale Ales or IPAs.
 
 Well, I'm sure I've gone into far more detail than necessary but....
 At any rate, I hope this helps.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Scott Stihler
 Fairbanks, Alaska
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From: Stephen Johnson  Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:01:44 -0600
Subject: Competition Entry Numbers 


Chris Collier in Atlanta asks for feedback on what different
competitions do to address the possible order effects that might come
about when creating pull lists for judging tables.

For the past 5 years, our competition has used the Beer Competition
Organizer (BCO) software developed by Barry DeLapp of Malvern, PA (I
think that's where he's located). I have information on how clubs can
acquire this software if they are interested. Feel free to e-mail me
directly (sjohnson3`at`comcast.net). One of the useful tools built into
this software is that it provides a random number assignment at the
front end of the entry log-in process. Numbers are printed on labels in
a random fashion based on an anticipated number of entries. While these
numbers are printed in "groups" or "clusters" initially by sheets of
numbers, it provides a first line of "defense" against one brewer's
beers all having a sequence of numbers that might potentially identify
that brewer later on during a competition. So, for example, a local
brewer A might enter 10 beers in our competition. It is possible that
his/her beers are the first 10 logged in by the competition staff. As
the numbers are assigned, the randomizing process of the printed labels
used might end up giving that brewer the following entry numbers:
12,40,5,7,15,20,3,1,33,17
(It is hard for me to provide a real example, but if one were to look
through our actual entry forms at the end of the login process prior to
a competition, brewers' entry numbers are spread out and appear to be
fairly random)

The second line of defense then comes when the pull lists are created,
and I believe that those are created in a random fashion as well. The
end result on a flight's pull list is that there is no obvious sequence
to the numbers, and lower numbers are not necessarily presented first on
that list.

The last line of defense might be how a club goes about logging in
entries in the first place, whether they do all their local entries
together or mix in out-of-town entries throughout the whole process.
This mixing, combined with assuring that the log-in workers are involved
only in that part of the process, are several other ways to help.
Finally, an organizer should attempt to assure that those members of the
competition staff who are privy to the numbers are from a select group
who should not be involved in any direct judging. This is not always
possible for some clubs where membership resources and volunteers are
stretched thin. But it is always something for an organizer and his/her
staff to keep in mind.

I suppose this sort of randomizing routine could be done manually by a
competition organizer and his/her staff, but it would seem to take some
time to assure this level of randomizing that the BCO software program
supplies. I'll be curious to hear how other clubs deal with this
important issue.

Steve Johnson
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN

Site of the Completely Relaxing and Joyous Homebrew Contest, April
11-21, 2003
See http://www.musiccitybrewers.com for more details and entry forms




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