Subject: Digest for the period 4/25/02 - 4/26/02 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 01:01:57 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC6929462993" --Next_Part_SYNC6929462993 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- re: Preferences (Bill Wible) --Next_Part_SYNC6929462993 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC6929462993" --Message_Part_SYNC6929462993 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from diskless7.axs2000.net ([209.120.196.45]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC69154620CF for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:20:53 -0400 Received: from [64.80.86.16] (ppp-086-16.verio.axs2000.net [64.80.86.16]) by diskless7.axs2000.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3PFJWK25279 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:19:32 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:21:02 -0400 Subject: re: Preferences From: Bill Wible Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message OK, sorry guys, I stand corrected. I misunderstood "I prefer" to mean "my way of thinking is..." I've been hit recently on a couple of beers this way. One was a recent pre-prohibition lager I entered in War of the Worts that was "hit" and had points deducted for tasting like corn. Go figure. There were 3 letters written in the flavor box - DMS. I could understand one rookie judge checking the DMS box and hitting me for corn flavor, but both judges?? And yes, they took off points and basically totally disqualified my beer. Yeah, there was 1 lb of flaked maize in the recipe! But it was supposed to be there. I was not at all happy. These guy obviously didn't know about pre-pro lager and judged it according it to their "likes". Or maybe they thought they were supposed to be judging Coor's Light - I don't know. I suppose it's possible they weren't paying attention ad didn't realize it was a pre-pro if it was the only one mixed in with a bunch of American/Standard/Lights. But that still isn't my fault, and I didn't deserve that. So this is why I easily take offense to this kind of thing when it shows up. I still, however, don't understand how you guys can be so bold as to actually believe you can, without error, single out individual flavors in a beer like that, and deem one more "appropriate" for the style than others. Yeah, chocolate and roasted barley are different. But I heard a story from a customer here not long ago where a pilsener beer was entered that was made with nothing but Saaz. The judge's comments said "inappropriate hop variety, American Tettnanag? Use Saaz." I don't know how a judge can write something like that, but I know I would have been extremely angry if this had been one of my beers. So we have to be more careful guys, and watch what we write. The idea of these competitions is not to ridicule or put down every beer, but to do an objective judging. Poor judging and bad comments only turns people off, and makes them not want to enter. War of the Worts was an exceptionally hard-judged contest this year. Everybody I know got bad scores. I entered 5 beers myself. I got one 33, one 22, two 18's and one beer that was scored an 11. Ridiculous. These beers weren't that bad. And I've had numerous similar complaints from just about all of my customers who entered that competition. So when HOPS BOPS, the next competition here, had a much lower than usual turnout, everybody is surprised. Think maybe there was any connection? And my answer wasn't a knee jerk response. That "I prefer" message was posted a week ago, and I saw it 3 days before I bothered to respond. And someone else wrote a very similar response since then. Bill -------------------------- Brew By You 3504 Cottman Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19149 www.brewbyyou.net --------------------------- --Message_Part_SYNC6929462993-- --Next_Part_SYNC6929462993-- Subject: Digest for the period 4/25/02 - 4/26/02 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 01:01:57 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC6929462993" --Next_Part_SYNC6929462993 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- re: Preferences (Bill Wible) --Next_Part_SYNC6929462993 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC6929462993" --Message_Part_SYNC6929462993 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from diskless7.axs2000.net ([209.120.196.45]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC69154620CF for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:20:53 -0400 Received: from [64.80.86.16] (ppp-086-16.verio.axs2000.net [64.80.86.16]) by diskless7.axs2000.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g3PFJWK25279 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:19:32 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:21:02 -0400 Subject: re: Preferences From: Bill Wible Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message OK, sorry guys, I stand corrected. I misunderstood "I prefer" to mean "my way of thinking is..." I've been hit recently on a couple of beers this way. One was a recent pre-prohibition lager I entered in War of the Worts that was "hit" and had points deducted for tasting like corn. Go figure. There were 3 letters written in the flavor box - DMS. I could understand one rookie judge checking the DMS box and hitting me for corn flavor, but both judges?? And yes, they took off points and basically totally disqualified my beer. Yeah, there was 1 lb of flaked maize in the recipe! But it was supposed to be there. I was not at all happy. These guy obviously didn't know about pre-pro lager and judged it according it to their "likes". Or maybe they thought they were supposed to be judging Coor's Light - I don't know. I suppose it's possible they weren't paying attention ad didn't realize it was a pre-pro if it was the only one mixed in with a bunch of American/Standard/Lights. But that still isn't my fault, and I didn't deserve that. So this is why I easily take offense to this kind of thing when it shows up. I still, however, don't understand how you guys can be so bold as to actually believe you can, without error, single out individual flavors in a beer like that, and deem one more "appropriate" for the style than others. Yeah, chocolate and roasted barley are different. But I heard a story from a customer here not long ago where a pilsener beer was entered that was made with nothing but Saaz. The judge's comments said "inappropriate hop variety, American Tettnanag? Use Saaz." I don't know how a judge can write something like that, but I know I would have been extremely angry if this had been one of my beers. So we have to be more careful guys, and watch what we write. The idea of these competitions is not to ridicule or put down every beer, but to do an objective judging. Poor judging and bad comments only turns people off, and makes them not want to enter. War of the Worts was an exceptionally hard-judged contest this year. Everybody I know got bad scores. I entered 5 beers myself. I got one 33, one 22, two 18's and one beer that was scored an 11. Ridiculous. These beers weren't that bad. And I've had numerous similar complaints from just about all of my customers who entered that competition. So when HOPS BOPS, the next competition here, had a much lower than usual turnout, everybody is surprised. Think maybe there was any connection? And my answer wasn't a knee jerk response. That "I prefer" message was posted a week ago, and I saw it 3 days before I bothered to respond. And someone else wrote a very similar response since then. Bill -------------------------- Brew By You 3504 Cottman Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19149 www.brewbyyou.net --------------------------- --Message_Part_SYNC6929462993-- --Next_Part_SYNC6929462993--