Subject: Digest for the period 3/13/02 - 3/14/02 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:04:35 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC589744669E" --Next_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Professionals and judging (OudBruin`at`aol.com) re: attack (Mark Tumarkin) Re: World beer cup juding credit (Ed Westemeier) RE: Professional judging and BJCP (Houseman, David L) Re: Attack (BillPierce`at`aol.com) --Next_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC589744669E" --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.106]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5869445A36 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:55:54 -0500 Received: from OudBruin`at`aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id u.116.dbd1d1a (30953) for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:55:39 -0500 (EST) From: OudBruin`at`aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Message-ID: <116.dbd1d1a.29c019ab`at`aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:55:39 EST Subject: Re: Professionals and judging To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Gee, I'm so glad I didn't take that job in the brewery for $18 thou a year- just so I can judge homebrew without a guilty conscience! --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.49]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5879446181 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:12:24 -0500 Received: from sdn-ar-001flgainp149.dialsprint.net ([158.252.69.85] helo=markt) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16l7cF-0007RT-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:12:23 -0800 Message-ID: <005101c1ca88$1d0ae1e0$5545fc9e`at`markt> From: "Mark Tumarkin" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: re: attack Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:10:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Hey y'all, I've already written to Fred personally, asking him to reconsider withdrawing from this list. That would truly be a shame. And Tyler finished his short apology post with "I'm out too." I hope that doesn't mean he's planning on dropping out as well. JudgeNet has had higher than usual traffic recently and the quality of the topics and posts has also been great. That's what we need to focus on. As Steve Johnson reminds us, emails aren't the best communication method. You don't get the added info from body language, facial expressions, smiles, etc. So when you're irritated by someones post, think twice before you reply or at least read your reply before you send it. Brewing forums like JudgeNet or the HBD are pretty good in this respect, at least when compared to some other on-line forums. But it's really a shame to have anyone feel they don't want to participate because of rudeness. I guess this incident reminds us that we have to play nice, and don't sweat the small stuff. Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.122]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC58794461B7 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:43:41 -0500 Received: from 1cust108.tnt1.cincinnati3.oh.da.uu.net ([63.29.95.108]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16l86W-0006RC-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:43:40 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: machops`at`mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:44:24 -0500 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: Ed Westemeier Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Re: World beer cup juding credit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message >Steve Ashton wrote: > >"To go back to an earlier thread, when registering for World Beer Cup >judging in Cleveland, I learned that WBC PPBT judges will be getting >BJCP points this year." > >Can someone confirm if this is true? Unless the WBC has changed its rules >for judge selection I fail to understand how we can allow this. I have >served as a Table Captain for this and I am a Master Judge and I still get >turned down for judging because I am not a professional brewer. Or maybe I >just don't know the right people. Can someone shed some light on this? This is certainly true. Although the WBC uses only PPBT judges, there are quite a few PPBT members who also belong to the BJCP. Those judges will receive BJCP judging credit for participating. The BJCP announced (http://www.bjcp.org/news) last October that this would be the policy for commercial competitions registered with the BJCP. The WBC is registered, as shown on the BJCP competitions page. -- Ed Westemeier --- hopfen`at`malz.com Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalt's --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from bbmail1-out.unisys.com ([192.63.108.40]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC58824462ED for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:27:09 -0500 Received: from us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com (us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com [192.63.78.151]) by bbmail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08811 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:26:24 GMT Received: by us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:26:58 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA0AC`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Professional judging and BJCP Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:26:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Steve Aston asks for confirmation that judging at WBC would earn BJCP experience point credits. That is true. It was announced last Fall on this forum by the BJCP that competitions judging professionally produced beers could register with the BJCP and so long as they followed the principals of the BJCP (blind tasting to objective styles -- not necessarily our own guidelines) that judges at these events who are BJCP could receive experience point credits. The two major ones in the US would be the WBC and GABF. There are other, smaller events as well. The primary reason to do this was to give the busy brewers, who don't get an opportunity to judge homebrew events but do get to their industry events to judge an opportunity to remain current with the BJCP. Many BJCP members have progressed to professional brewing or writing and this is a way for them to stay current. Certainly it's my experience that judging at GABF offered at least as good experience worthy of BJCP experience points as any homebrew competition. You also asked about judging at these events. The WBC and GABF have a specific process for becoming a judge. One must submit a CV of their judging/brewing credentials along with recommendations from, I believe, 2 or 3 professionals in the field. Once approved then you are invited to judge based on the needs for that competition. I suggest you contact Chris Swersey, Chris`at`aob.org, if you remain interested. Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5883446323 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from BillPierce`at`aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id u.f9.18e1100d (3973) for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:09:01 -0500 (EST) From: BillPierce`at`aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:09:00 EST Subject: Re: Attack To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I hope David Houseman realizes that the "untasteful posting" regarding Fred Scheer's grammar and proofreading did not come from me. Indeed my post was an attempt to point out that Fred's considerable knowledge about brewing was the result of being educated in another language and culture. I have always had the highest regard for Fred and have valued his posts to the HBD and other publications greatly. I wish that he would reconsider his withdrawal from this forum, but I understand his disappointment at the reaction he received here. Bill Pierce Cellar Door Homebrewery Highwood, Illinois --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E-- --Next_Part_SYNC589744669E-- Subject: Digest for the period 3/13/02 - 3/14/02 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:04:35 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC589744669E" --Next_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Professionals and judging (OudBruin`at`aol.com) re: attack (Mark Tumarkin) Re: World beer cup juding credit (Ed Westemeier) RE: Professional judging and BJCP (Houseman, David L) Re: Attack (BillPierce`at`aol.com) --Next_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC589744669E" --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.106]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5869445A36 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:55:54 -0500 Received: from OudBruin`at`aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id u.116.dbd1d1a (30953) for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:55:39 -0500 (EST) From: OudBruin`at`aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Message-ID: <116.dbd1d1a.29c019ab`at`aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:55:39 EST Subject: Re: Professionals and judging To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Gee, I'm so glad I didn't take that job in the brewery for $18 thou a year- just so I can judge homebrew without a guilty conscience! --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.49]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5879446181 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:12:24 -0500 Received: from sdn-ar-001flgainp149.dialsprint.net ([158.252.69.85] helo=markt) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16l7cF-0007RT-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:12:23 -0800 Message-ID: <005101c1ca88$1d0ae1e0$5545fc9e`at`markt> From: "Mark Tumarkin" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: re: attack Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:10:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Hey y'all, I've already written to Fred personally, asking him to reconsider withdrawing from this list. That would truly be a shame. And Tyler finished his short apology post with "I'm out too." I hope that doesn't mean he's planning on dropping out as well. JudgeNet has had higher than usual traffic recently and the quality of the topics and posts has also been great. That's what we need to focus on. As Steve Johnson reminds us, emails aren't the best communication method. You don't get the added info from body language, facial expressions, smiles, etc. So when you're irritated by someones post, think twice before you reply or at least read your reply before you send it. Brewing forums like JudgeNet or the HBD are pretty good in this respect, at least when compared to some other on-line forums. But it's really a shame to have anyone feel they don't want to participate because of rudeness. I guess this incident reminds us that we have to play nice, and don't sweat the small stuff. Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.122]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC58794461B7 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:43:41 -0500 Received: from 1cust108.tnt1.cincinnati3.oh.da.uu.net ([63.29.95.108]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16l86W-0006RC-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:43:40 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: machops`at`mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:44:24 -0500 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: Ed Westemeier Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Re: World beer cup juding credit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message >Steve Ashton wrote: > >"To go back to an earlier thread, when registering for World Beer Cup >judging in Cleveland, I learned that WBC PPBT judges will be getting >BJCP points this year." > >Can someone confirm if this is true? Unless the WBC has changed its rules >for judge selection I fail to understand how we can allow this. I have >served as a Table Captain for this and I am a Master Judge and I still get >turned down for judging because I am not a professional brewer. Or maybe I >just don't know the right people. Can someone shed some light on this? This is certainly true. Although the WBC uses only PPBT judges, there are quite a few PPBT members who also belong to the BJCP. Those judges will receive BJCP judging credit for participating. The BJCP announced (http://www.bjcp.org/news) last October that this would be the policy for commercial competitions registered with the BJCP. The WBC is registered, as shown on the BJCP competitions page. -- Ed Westemeier --- hopfen`at`malz.com Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalt's --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from bbmail1-out.unisys.com ([192.63.108.40]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC58824462ED for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:27:09 -0500 Received: from us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com (us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com [192.63.78.151]) by bbmail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08811 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:26:24 GMT Received: by us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:26:58 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA0AC`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Professional judging and BJCP Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:26:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Steve Aston asks for confirmation that judging at WBC would earn BJCP experience point credits. That is true. It was announced last Fall on this forum by the BJCP that competitions judging professionally produced beers could register with the BJCP and so long as they followed the principals of the BJCP (blind tasting to objective styles -- not necessarily our own guidelines) that judges at these events who are BJCP could receive experience point credits. The two major ones in the US would be the WBC and GABF. There are other, smaller events as well. The primary reason to do this was to give the busy brewers, who don't get an opportunity to judge homebrew events but do get to their industry events to judge an opportunity to remain current with the BJCP. Many BJCP members have progressed to professional brewing or writing and this is a way for them to stay current. Certainly it's my experience that judging at GABF offered at least as good experience worthy of BJCP experience points as any homebrew competition. You also asked about judging at these events. The WBC and GABF have a specific process for becoming a judge. One must submit a CV of their judging/brewing credentials along with recommendations from, I believe, 2 or 3 professionals in the field. Once approved then you are invited to judge based on the needs for that competition. I suggest you contact Chris Swersey, Chris`at`aob.org, if you remain interested. Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5883446323 for judge`at`synchro.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from BillPierce`at`aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id u.f9.18e1100d (3973) for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:09:01 -0500 (EST) From: BillPierce`at`aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:09:00 EST Subject: Re: Attack To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I hope David Houseman realizes that the "untasteful posting" regarding Fred Scheer's grammar and proofreading did not come from me. Indeed my post was an attempt to point out that Fred's considerable knowledge about brewing was the result of being educated in another language and culture. I have always had the highest regard for Fred and have valued his posts to the HBD and other publications greatly. I wish that he would reconsider his withdrawal from this forum, but I understand his disappointment at the reaction he received here. Bill Pierce Cellar Door Homebrewery Highwood, Illinois --Message_Part_SYNC589744669E-- --Next_Part_SYNC589744669E--