Subject: Digest for the period 3/12/02 - 3/13/02 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:03:53 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F" --Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: "attack" (David Houseman) Professional judging and BJCP (Steve Ashton) Re: attack? (Tyler Yarbrough) RE: Digest for the period 3/11/02 - 3/12/02 (Moranz, Mike) Fred Scheer (Stephen Johnson) --Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F" --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.74]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC58564451E4 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:25:18 -0500 Received: from user-2inikkb.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.82.139] helo=winxp) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kmHD-00010F-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:25:16 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c1c9c9$450d3ef0$0100a8c0`at`winxp> Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" From: "David Houseman" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest References: Subject: Re: "attack" Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:56:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I'd hoped that Fred Scheer was going to just let Bill Pierce's un-tasteful posting about Fred's grammar/English pass for what it was. It was very disconcerting to see Fred take this personally and decide to exit JudgeNet. Believe me Fred, the rest of us just shook our heads at Bill's posting and realized he didn't know that your German may be better than your English and that he made an unfortunate assumption (and we know what assume means) that you were just another typical American with sloppy grammar. For those of you who don't know Fred, he's a very well known professional brewer and an excellent judge at GABF. While Fred's first language is German rather than English, his training and experience in brewing cannot be matched by many of the homebrewers on this listserver. I'd like to ask Fred to stay on and to continue to contribute to our mutual benefit. A number of us have differences of opinions quite often, but with courtesy and civility we can discuss and learn. Fred, please stay involved in homebrew judging and JudgeNet. I'll buy you a beer at WBC or GABF.... Thanks, Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from metints08.metlife.com ([216.163.240.247]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5857445224 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0500 Received: from 192.168.35.248 by metints08.metlife.com with SMTP ( (MMS v4.7)); Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:06:15 -0500 X-Server-Uuid: c68c68cc-fda5-11d2-bf12-0008c7db53ea X-Server-Uuid: 734eaade-fd7f-11d2-af45-0008c7db79cc Subject: Professional judging and BJCP To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Steve Ashton" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:08:38 -0500 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MetMtaG4/MetLifeNet/US(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 03/12/2002 08:57:51 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 1090D40D248307-01-02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rpaolino`at`execpc.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:33:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Professional judging and BJCP "To go back to an earlier thread, when registering for World Beer Cup judging in Cleveland, I learned that WBC PPBT judges will be getting BJCP points this year." Can someone confirm if this is true? Unless the WBC has changed its rules for judge selection I fail to understand how we can allow this. I have served as a Table Captain for this and I am a Master Judge and I still get turned down for judging because I am not a professional brewer. Or maybe I just don't know the right people. Can someone shed some light on this? Steve Ashton Master BJCP --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.241]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5858445313 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:43:15 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSV00MBGAC1C7`at`mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:43:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:43:57 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Re: attack? To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C8E223D.E8910FF`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Well, I'm sorry if anyone felt attacked by my post. I guess I ought to read my own stuff more critically. The point I tried to make was that I couldn't understand what Mr. Scheer was saying. I'm out too. cheers, Tyler --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from min-nrt-exch3.min.NRTINC.NRT ([208.162.64.15]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5863445754 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:19 -0500 Received: by min-nrt-exch3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:45:16 -0600 Message-ID: <954398EF1F830749868583446DBCE7EB06C2E800`at`min-nrt-exch1> From: "Moranz, Mike" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Digest for the period 3/11/02 - 3/12/02 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:45:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message The posts about meads and ciders not specifying dry/sweet or still/sparkling is easy to put in perspective. When someone enters a beer, mead, or cider, they must specify what it is so that judges can judge it according to an established guideline. If there is a mistake on the part of the brewer, or they believe it is something it is not, then it will not score as well. Judges simply cannot read the mind of an entrant. Every effort should be made by the organizers to confirm this information. If the judges have the time to speculate, fine, the brewer will get excellent feedback. Bottom line: If a brewer enters an ale as a lager, it doesn't matter how good the ale is, it won't win in that particular competition. Better luck in the next one if the judges gave good feedback. Mike Moranz, President Minnesota Home Brewers Association --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu ([129.59.1.77]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC586544586D for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:59:48 -0500 Received: from smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/VU-3.6C+d3.6) with ESMTP id g2CMxbb09912; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from imap2.mail.vanderbilt.edu (imap2.mail.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.1.135]) by smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/VU-3.6B+d3.6) with ESMTP id g2CMxaW09901; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from susan.vanderbilt.edu (A193120.N1.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.193.120]) by imap2.mail.vanderbilt.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/VU-3.6A+d3.6) with SMTP id g2CMxYv08118; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:34 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20020312165930.006fc5c8`at`j.mail.vanderbilt.edu> X-Sender: johnsosm`at`j.mail.vanderbilt.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:30 -0600 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: Stephen Johnson Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Fred Scheer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Unfortunately for the Beer Judge Digest, the "collective" has once again lost a valuable resource as a result of someone jumping to conclusions and being insensitive about what or how someone else has posted. As always, we need to be reminded to be careful of what and how our words come out when we write e-mails. When we as humans don't have the benefit of seeing someone face to face, or hearing the tone of their voice, we should always remember to proceed cautiously and give that person the benefit of the doubt. In case some of you don't know, Fred Scheer is a member of our homebrewing club in Nashville, TN, The Music City Brewers. He is also the brewer at the Boscos location in Nashville, and works closely with head brewer Chuck Skypeck of Boscos in Memphis and Germantown to do a lot for the homebrewing community here. That means helping us in many ways, including writing and serving as Technical Editor for our newsletter, The Score, helping us to organize and run our annual competition, judging with us at our events, and helping with BJCP exam study sessions. While Fred has been a part of the craft and homebrewing culture for many years here in the States, he also has been very involved in German brewing culture, having been born and raised in Germany and coming from a family that includes brewers and maltsters. He is a graduate of the Doemens Institute in Germany, and has written many articles in both German and American publications. He has presented at many conferences, including the Craft Brewers Conference and the AHA's Annual Conference. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Fred has been, is, and continues to be a valuable resource to the brewing community. Personally, Fred has become a close friend, and I am saddened that he has been embarrassed and hurt by someone's careless comments. Maybe I can convince him to give the Judge Digest another chance. Regardless, we in Nashville are truly blessed to have someone of his caliber in our club, and I look forward to each opportunity to share in drinking his wonderfully crafted beers, catching a pearl of his wisdom, and being on the receiving end of one of his warm and heartfelt hugs. We should all be so lucky... Steve Johnson, President Music City Brewers Nashville, TN --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F-- --Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F-- Subject: Digest for the period 3/12/02 - 3/13/02 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:03:53 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F" --Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: "attack" (David Houseman) Professional judging and BJCP (Steve Ashton) Re: attack? (Tyler Yarbrough) RE: Digest for the period 3/11/02 - 3/12/02 (Moranz, Mike) Fred Scheer (Stephen Johnson) --Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F" --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.74]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC58564451E4 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:25:18 -0500 Received: from user-2inikkb.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.82.139] helo=winxp) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kmHD-00010F-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:25:16 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c1c9c9$450d3ef0$0100a8c0`at`winxp> Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" From: "David Houseman" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest References: Subject: Re: "attack" Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:56:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I'd hoped that Fred Scheer was going to just let Bill Pierce's un-tasteful posting about Fred's grammar/English pass for what it was. It was very disconcerting to see Fred take this personally and decide to exit JudgeNet. Believe me Fred, the rest of us just shook our heads at Bill's posting and realized he didn't know that your German may be better than your English and that he made an unfortunate assumption (and we know what assume means) that you were just another typical American with sloppy grammar. For those of you who don't know Fred, he's a very well known professional brewer and an excellent judge at GABF. While Fred's first language is German rather than English, his training and experience in brewing cannot be matched by many of the homebrewers on this listserver. I'd like to ask Fred to stay on and to continue to contribute to our mutual benefit. A number of us have differences of opinions quite often, but with courtesy and civility we can discuss and learn. Fred, please stay involved in homebrew judging and JudgeNet. I'll buy you a beer at WBC or GABF.... Thanks, Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from metints08.metlife.com ([216.163.240.247]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5857445224 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0500 Received: from 192.168.35.248 by metints08.metlife.com with SMTP ( (MMS v4.7)); Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:06:15 -0500 X-Server-Uuid: c68c68cc-fda5-11d2-bf12-0008c7db53ea X-Server-Uuid: 734eaade-fd7f-11d2-af45-0008c7db79cc Subject: Professional judging and BJCP To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Steve Ashton" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:08:38 -0500 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MetMtaG4/MetLifeNet/US(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 03/12/2002 08:57:51 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 1090D40D248307-01-02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rpaolino`at`execpc.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:33:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Professional judging and BJCP "To go back to an earlier thread, when registering for World Beer Cup judging in Cleveland, I learned that WBC PPBT judges will be getting BJCP points this year." Can someone confirm if this is true? Unless the WBC has changed its rules for judge selection I fail to understand how we can allow this. I have served as a Table Captain for this and I am a Master Judge and I still get turned down for judging because I am not a professional brewer. Or maybe I just don't know the right people. Can someone shed some light on this? Steve Ashton Master BJCP --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.241]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5858445313 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:43:15 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSV00MBGAC1C7`at`mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:43:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:43:57 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Re: attack? To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C8E223D.E8910FF`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Well, I'm sorry if anyone felt attacked by my post. I guess I ought to read my own stuff more critically. The point I tried to make was that I couldn't understand what Mr. Scheer was saying. I'm out too. cheers, Tyler --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from min-nrt-exch3.min.NRTINC.NRT ([208.162.64.15]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC5863445754 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:19 -0500 Received: by min-nrt-exch3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:45:16 -0600 Message-ID: <954398EF1F830749868583446DBCE7EB06C2E800`at`min-nrt-exch1> From: "Moranz, Mike" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Digest for the period 3/11/02 - 3/12/02 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:45:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message The posts about meads and ciders not specifying dry/sweet or still/sparkling is easy to put in perspective. When someone enters a beer, mead, or cider, they must specify what it is so that judges can judge it according to an established guideline. If there is a mistake on the part of the brewer, or they believe it is something it is not, then it will not score as well. Judges simply cannot read the mind of an entrant. Every effort should be made by the organizers to confirm this information. If the judges have the time to speculate, fine, the brewer will get excellent feedback. Bottom line: If a brewer enters an ale as a lager, it doesn't matter how good the ale is, it won't win in that particular competition. Better luck in the next one if the judges gave good feedback. Mike Moranz, President Minnesota Home Brewers Association --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu ([129.59.1.77]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC586544586D for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:59:48 -0500 Received: from smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/VU-3.6C+d3.6) with ESMTP id g2CMxbb09912; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from imap2.mail.vanderbilt.edu (imap2.mail.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.1.135]) by smtp3.mail.vanderbilt.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/VU-3.6B+d3.6) with ESMTP id g2CMxaW09901; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from susan.vanderbilt.edu (A193120.N1.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.193.120]) by imap2.mail.vanderbilt.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/VU-3.6A+d3.6) with SMTP id g2CMxYv08118; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:34 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20020312165930.006fc5c8`at`j.mail.vanderbilt.edu> X-Sender: johnsosm`at`j.mail.vanderbilt.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:30 -0600 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: Stephen Johnson Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Fred Scheer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Unfortunately for the Beer Judge Digest, the "collective" has once again lost a valuable resource as a result of someone jumping to conclusions and being insensitive about what or how someone else has posted. As always, we need to be reminded to be careful of what and how our words come out when we write e-mails. When we as humans don't have the benefit of seeing someone face to face, or hearing the tone of their voice, we should always remember to proceed cautiously and give that person the benefit of the doubt. In case some of you don't know, Fred Scheer is a member of our homebrewing club in Nashville, TN, The Music City Brewers. He is also the brewer at the Boscos location in Nashville, and works closely with head brewer Chuck Skypeck of Boscos in Memphis and Germantown to do a lot for the homebrewing community here. That means helping us in many ways, including writing and serving as Technical Editor for our newsletter, The Score, helping us to organize and run our annual competition, judging with us at our events, and helping with BJCP exam study sessions. While Fred has been a part of the craft and homebrewing culture for many years here in the States, he also has been very involved in German brewing culture, having been born and raised in Germany and coming from a family that includes brewers and maltsters. He is a graduate of the Doemens Institute in Germany, and has written many articles in both German and American publications. He has presented at many conferences, including the Craft Brewers Conference and the AHA's Annual Conference. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Fred has been, is, and continues to be a valuable resource to the brewing community. Personally, Fred has become a close friend, and I am saddened that he has been embarrassed and hurt by someone's careless comments. Maybe I can convince him to give the Judge Digest another chance. Regardless, we in Nashville are truly blessed to have someone of his caliber in our club, and I look forward to each opportunity to share in drinking his wonderfully crafted beers, catching a pearl of his wisdom, and being on the receiving end of one of his warm and heartfelt hugs. We should all be so lucky... Steve Johnson, President Music City Brewers Nashville, TN --Message_Part_SYNC5873445B5F-- --Next_Part_SYNC5873445B5F--