Subject: Digest for the period 3/5/02 - 3/6/02 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:03:23 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC570543E280" --Next_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: BJCP styles (Tyler Yarbrough) Re: BJCP Guidelines (Fred Scheer) Pro brewers and Style guides (Steve Casselman) --Next_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC570543E280" --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.240]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC569143DCAA for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:38:24 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSI00EO2E7XQ3`at`mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:38:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:15:27 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: RE: BJCP styles To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C84EF1F.F0E01B6A`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Fred, Dave: Regardless of the history of the development of the BJCP style guidelines (frankly, of which I know little...), whether they were developed by professional or amateur brewers seems of little consequence. It occurs to me that of more importance is that the Style Guide has stood up to the test of time and debate, with frequent revisions as necessary. The BJCP style guidelines should be amended by those who travel the world, critically enjoying the wide range of styles available in local markets. Many of the styles in the BJCP style guide are very hard for American brewers (amateur or professional) to obtain (Alt, Kolsch, Southern English Brown, Mild, etc). When they are available here, they are often in such poor condition as to do a disservice to the original fresh example. In my experience, few professional brewers truly try to emulate the regional example of styles, despite what it says on the label. Beer styles successful in Europe aren't necessarily going to be a success in Seattle. Professional brewers should be looked to as the genisis of styles in their own markets. I wouldn't, for example, necessarily look to the brewer of St. Stan's for a definition of Alt Bier. My $.02 only, your mileage may vary, offer not valid in sectors R and N. cheers \_/ Tyler --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.32.206]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC569243DD6E for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:37:12 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:37:09 -0800 Received: from 209.214.115.214 by pv0fd.pav0.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:37:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.214.115.214] From: "Fred Scheer" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Bcc: Subject: Re: BJCP Guidelines Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:37:09 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2002 17:37:09.0985 (UTC) FILETIME=[60A25D10:01C1C46C] X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I agree with you that being a Pro Brewer has (almost) nothing to do with developing Beer style guidelines, I was only wondering because on some other discussion forums I saw that type discussion. I disagree with you on the style guidelines being for homebrew competitions only; as they should be looked at as General Beer Guidelines (if only the study books are updated). Thanks for your reply, Fred Scheer _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.123]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC569543DEC0 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:11:14 -0500 Received: from HILBERT ([64.174.106.246]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with SMTP id <0GSI00CT1N1J2O`at`mta2.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:48:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:43:50 -0800 From: Steve Casselman Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Pro brewers and Style guides In-reply-to: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message -------- I can't speak to the specific make up prior to that but many of the early AHA/BJCP participants in developing the style guides became professional brewers from their homebrewing roots. ---- I helped found the Great Beer Company and I'm the Associate Brewer. http://www.greatbeerco.com The awards we won were all BJCP judged events. Steve C. --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280-- --Next_Part_SYNC570543E280-- Subject: Digest for the period 3/5/02 - 3/6/02 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:03:23 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC570543E280" --Next_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: BJCP styles (Tyler Yarbrough) Re: BJCP Guidelines (Fred Scheer) Pro brewers and Style guides (Steve Casselman) --Next_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC570543E280" --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.240]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC569143DCAA for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:38:24 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSI00EO2E7XQ3`at`mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:38:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:15:27 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: RE: BJCP styles To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C84EF1F.F0E01B6A`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Fred, Dave: Regardless of the history of the development of the BJCP style guidelines (frankly, of which I know little...), whether they were developed by professional or amateur brewers seems of little consequence. It occurs to me that of more importance is that the Style Guide has stood up to the test of time and debate, with frequent revisions as necessary. The BJCP style guidelines should be amended by those who travel the world, critically enjoying the wide range of styles available in local markets. Many of the styles in the BJCP style guide are very hard for American brewers (amateur or professional) to obtain (Alt, Kolsch, Southern English Brown, Mild, etc). When they are available here, they are often in such poor condition as to do a disservice to the original fresh example. In my experience, few professional brewers truly try to emulate the regional example of styles, despite what it says on the label. Beer styles successful in Europe aren't necessarily going to be a success in Seattle. Professional brewers should be looked to as the genisis of styles in their own markets. I wouldn't, for example, necessarily look to the brewer of St. Stan's for a definition of Alt Bier. My $.02 only, your mileage may vary, offer not valid in sectors R and N. cheers \_/ Tyler --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.32.206]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC569243DD6E for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:37:12 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:37:09 -0800 Received: from 209.214.115.214 by pv0fd.pav0.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:37:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.214.115.214] From: "Fred Scheer" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Bcc: Subject: Re: BJCP Guidelines Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:37:09 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2002 17:37:09.0985 (UTC) FILETIME=[60A25D10:01C1C46C] X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I agree with you that being a Pro Brewer has (almost) nothing to do with developing Beer style guidelines, I was only wondering because on some other discussion forums I saw that type discussion. I disagree with you on the style guidelines being for homebrew competitions only; as they should be looked at as General Beer Guidelines (if only the study books are updated). Thanks for your reply, Fred Scheer _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.123]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC569543DEC0 for judge`at`synchro.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:11:14 -0500 Received: from HILBERT ([64.174.106.246]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with SMTP id <0GSI00CT1N1J2O`at`mta2.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:48:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:43:50 -0800 From: Steve Casselman Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Pro brewers and Style guides In-reply-to: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message -------- I can't speak to the specific make up prior to that but many of the early AHA/BJCP participants in developing the style guides became professional brewers from their homebrewing roots. ---- I helped found the Great Beer Company and I'm the Associate Brewer. http://www.greatbeerco.com The awards we won were all BJCP judged events. Steve C. --Message_Part_SYNC570543E280-- --Next_Part_SYNC570543E280--