Subject: Digest for the period 2/7/02 - 2/8/02 Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 01:01:40 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC508142A689" --Next_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: New Styles (Houseman, David L) New Styles (Bill Wible) In response to Doherty and other issues (Wayne Wambles) Philadelphia Area - War Of The Worts 7 (John Varady) Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition (John J. Allison) --Next_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC508142A689" --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from bbmail1-out.unisys.com ([192.63.108.40]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506542A205 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:23:33 -0500 Received: from us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com (us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com [192.63.78.151]) by bbmail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15198 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:23:16 GMT Received: by us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <1253C6YS>; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:23:30 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA074`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: "Houseman, David L" Subject: RE: New Styles Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:23:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I will agree that Coors' Killigan's is not really an Irish ale. But there are similar Irish ales, such as Smithwick's and Kilkenny. My notes on these as I posted on HBD are: Kilkenny was served with nitrogen just as the Guinness stout is. This is a deep amber/copper colored beer with rich creamy head. It had medium diacetyl, higher than the Smithwicks, was malty sweet with a fruity character and low hop bitteness, low hop flavor and aroma, although balanced on the whole. Kilkenny was served warmer than the Smithwichs and was noticeably less carbonated. The Smithwicks had little to no head, similar to a Kiligans in the US. It was served quite cold and highly carbonated. Malty, fruity, with low to medium diacetyl, this was very similar to some American microbrewed ales. Low to medium bitterness, now hop flavor and no hop aroma, deep amber/copper color, this ale was very clean and described by the barmaid as "popular with the Brits as a pale ale." I'm not so sure though about that rumored NW Coast Porter; it and Bigfoot are pretty elusive ;-) Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from diskless7.axs2000.net ([209.120.196.45]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506742A2F5 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:25:12 -0500 Received: from [64.80.74.72] (ppp-ptc-pm3-07-024.fiberlynx.net [64.80.74.72]) by diskless7.axs2000.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g17GONr25047 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:24:23 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:25:11 -0500 Subject: New Styles From: Bill Wible Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message As far as adding new styles - remember - there have to be enough people brewing those styles and entering them in competitions to support having a separate style category for each style, or it will just end up being combined with some other category in the competition anyway. Having participated in running and organizing a competition for the first time last year, I can now appreciate the work that goes into it. One of the hardest things I found was deciding to do with categories that had only 2 or 3 beers entered in them. I have always contended since my earliest experiences with beer competitions that it was unfair to have categories combined. It was pointed out by someone else yesterday, for example that American and English IPA's get judged side by side. We all know that the American examples, which are heavy with grapefruit and cascade are favored by judges and really stand out next to the English examples. o brewers brewing English style IPA's have a built-in disadvantage to overcome. But this is nothing compared to the light lagers category, which is always a mish-mash of 7 or 8 different styles. You have North German Pilseners, Bohemian Pilseners, American Lagers, American Cream Ale, Dortmunder Export, Munich Helles, Classic American Pilsener (or Pre-pro Lager - another style that is supposedly "making a comeback") and I'm sure I missed a couple. The styles always end up pitted against each other in the same category - and its not fair. A really good Cream Ale just will have no chance against any Pilsener that is even decent. That's just the way it goes. It happens every time. And the whole reason these categories get combined like this in the first place is that there aren't enough entries in each category for each to stand on its own. You can't keep them separate when there's only 2 entries. That would be giving away ribbons by default. And now you guys are saying you want more categories - to end up with 2 or 3 beers in each. We already have judges who can't judge mead, cider, Mild Ale, CAP, and many of the already included lesser known styles. And you want to add more? Like I said, they're just going to end up being combined with other categories at competition time anyway when 2 or 3 beers get entered. And my personal feeling is that these lesser known and lesser appreciated categories will not have a fair chance and will get blown out of the water by the better known and appreciated categories, so I wouldn't bother to waste my time brewing new, under-appreciated and unknown styles, even if they're added to the "official" BJCP guidelines. That's my feeling. Other comments? Bill -------------------------- Brew By You 3504 Cottman Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19149 215-335-BREW (PA) 215-335-0712 (Fax) www.brewbyyou.net --------------------------- --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.246]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506742A336 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:51:13 -0500 Received: from pool-63.49.55.240.tmpa.grid.net ([63.49.55.240] helo=beernazimindspring) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16YrlM-0005RU-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:51:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c1aff9$eca469c0$f037313f`at`com> From: "Wayne Wambles" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: In response to Doherty and other issues Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:07:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message One of my main concerns is regarding the comment that Irish-style ale doesn't exist. It is very much a reality and the first one was documented as being produced in Ireland in 1956(pg.111, Beer Companion, Michael Jackson). Other examples(as noted on the same page) are the Irish made Killians(Pelforth) that is actually too big for this particular style at 6.5ABV but is an ale and the American made Killians which actually is produced with a lager yeast at slightly out of range temperatures so as to add some esters yet is a little closer overall to this style. An example of this particular style that is closer to the professional panel of blind tasting's guidelines is Caffrey's(minus the use of Eroica hops). And let's not forget about one of the American brewpubs that may have brought this style in to the light for the American commercial market, McGuire's(Pensacola, FL, 1989). Other examples of style? Smithwick's Export and Kilkenny(which are actually the same beers that are made in different markets). Not only does this style exist(Irish-style amber) but it is thriving in the U.S. market. It is a training wheels beer for those that go to brewpubs for a beer and progress from relatively bland blonde ales to malt oriented red beers. It has no place as an American style. It is too malty for an American Amber. The hop character(I feel) should be English in origin yet most references state the use of Eroica for some reason. The ceiling for gravity is below that of American Amber making it more social yet the malt complexity and the use of extended boils for caramelization or sometimes excessive use of caramel malts lends a complex rich malt character that actually makes it deceiving for a beer that is generally no stronger that 4.8ABV. The base bittering hops should be the focal point of hop additions for this particular style and this style should have a little flavor hop additions as well but should be void of any aroma from hop additions. Even though the PPBT(professional panel of blind tasting, the guidelines that the GABF and WBC use) states that diacetyl should be absent from this particular style it seems to be something that Jackson constantly notes tasting in better examples of this style. Maybe that should be a consideration for the skeleton of the BJCP guidelines. Do we consider American Light Lager and American Premium Lager to be synonymous? Then why should we flight Blonde and Golden together? These were created with the same intentions as Light Lager and Premium Lager producers yet their producers were limited by a lack of refrigeration or a lack of time to lager. The only thing that I could possibly see being done with these two(as far as putting them into one category) would be to extend the IBU limit so that golden ale would fit into this. Golden ale is described as being crip and dry palated with significant to low floral hop aroma, light malt sweetness and low to medium bitterness. To me this sounds too full and aggressive for a Blonde Ale. As for separating IPA into two categories( English/American) I have been and will always be for that decision. Why is this taking so long for the BJCP to do? It is an obvious addition that must be made. Maybe a good classification for the Strong Ale that Doherty mentions would be American Strong Ale. Some examples would be Mogul Ale(Rogue) and Red Rocket(Bear Republic). These tend to be loaded down with American hops and have a complex malt expression as well. Basically an American version of an English-style winter warmer. And Doherty is correct, these tend to have no apparent oxidation of alcohol. I am definitely for bringing the Malt Liquor category back under Specialty American Lagers. It is a very interesting style. It has an overwhelming malt character. This is still alive and well in the U.S. and if you pay attention to the winner's lists for the GABF and WBC in previous years you will see that malt liquors typically dominate the American Specialty Lager category. Mark, in one of Paul's earlier responses he commented on the fact that the AHA was paying attention and documenting the number of entries in categories. As far as how this is done exactly, I do not know. Maybe you should e-mail Paul? Take care of yourselves, Wayne Wambles Buckhead Brewery & Grill Tallahassee FL --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.95.144]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506842A388 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:16:16 -0500 Received: from j ([68.80.245.205]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020207171615.VUE27110.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com`at`j> for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:16:15 -0800 X-Sender: rust1d`at`pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Demo Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:15:33 -0800 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: John Varady Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Philadelphia Area - War Of The Worts 7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <20020207171615.VUE27110.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com`at`j> X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Here's a quick reminder that the 7th Annual War Of The Worts will be taking place at the Drafting Room in Springhouse, PA on Feb 23rd. As usual, you can expect your homebrew to be judged by top notch BJCP judges and when your beer wins, you can expect a top notch prize and ribbon to match. Entries are being accepted now! Deadline for entries is Fed 17th, so you still have plenty of time to ship or deliver your homebrew, but get on it! No time like the present, right? Check the website at http://www.keystonehops.org/worts/worts7.htm for shipping and drop off locations, entry forms, labels, and directions to the contest. Awards cermony will be held around 4:30, but you are welcome to come early and enjoy the wonderful beer and food selection at the Drafting Room. JUDGES! If you've judged with us in the past, you know we host one of the best afternoons of judging around and we expect to see you back this year. If you haven't judged the War before, we'd love to have your pallet as a soldier in this beery battle of the senses. Please sign up on line at http://www.keystonehops.org/worts/judgereg.cfm See you there, John Varady Glenside, PA --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from thunder.joss.ucar.edu ([128.117.90.64]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506942A41D for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 13:29:06 -0500 Received: from virga.joss.ucar.edu (virga [128.117.90.97]) by thunder.joss.ucar.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25083 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:29:05 -0700 (MST) From: "John J. Allison" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Received: (from john`at`localhost) by virga.joss.ucar.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19505 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:29:04 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:29:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200202071829.LAA19505`at`virga.joss.ucar.edu> To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message 13th Annual Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition Hop Barley and the Alers invite you to enter the 13th Annual Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition to be held at The Falling Rock Tap House in Denver, Colorado. The competition will take place on March 30th, 2001, with judging from 9:00am to 5:00pm and an awards ceremony to follow at approximately 6:00pm. Entries are to arrive between Monday, March 11th and 5:00 pm Friday March 22th 2001. The Dredhop is AHA and BJCP sanctioned and is an MCAB Qualifying Event. *** Potential judges, stewards, and other volunteers are encouraged to immediately contact the competition organizers via email at dredhop`at`hopbarley.org. All experience levels are welcome. Further information, including complete and detailed rules, mail/drop-off locations, etc is available at the competition website: http://hopbarley.org/dredhop/ You may also contact the competition director via email: Bob Kauffman, dredhop`at`hopbarley.org. -- John Allison webmaster`at`hopbarley.org --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689-- --Next_Part_SYNC508142A689-- Subject: Digest for the period 2/7/02 - 2/8/02 Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 01:01:40 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC508142A689" --Next_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: New Styles (Houseman, David L) New Styles (Bill Wible) In response to Doherty and other issues (Wayne Wambles) Philadelphia Area - War Of The Worts 7 (John Varady) Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition (John J. Allison) --Next_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC508142A689" --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from bbmail1-out.unisys.com ([192.63.108.40]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506542A205 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:23:33 -0500 Received: from us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com (us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com [192.63.78.151]) by bbmail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15198 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:23:16 GMT Received: by us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <1253C6YS>; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:23:30 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA074`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: "Houseman, David L" Subject: RE: New Styles Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:23:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I will agree that Coors' Killigan's is not really an Irish ale. But there are similar Irish ales, such as Smithwick's and Kilkenny. My notes on these as I posted on HBD are: Kilkenny was served with nitrogen just as the Guinness stout is. This is a deep amber/copper colored beer with rich creamy head. It had medium diacetyl, higher than the Smithwicks, was malty sweet with a fruity character and low hop bitteness, low hop flavor and aroma, although balanced on the whole. Kilkenny was served warmer than the Smithwichs and was noticeably less carbonated. The Smithwicks had little to no head, similar to a Kiligans in the US. It was served quite cold and highly carbonated. Malty, fruity, with low to medium diacetyl, this was very similar to some American microbrewed ales. Low to medium bitterness, now hop flavor and no hop aroma, deep amber/copper color, this ale was very clean and described by the barmaid as "popular with the Brits as a pale ale." I'm not so sure though about that rumored NW Coast Porter; it and Bigfoot are pretty elusive ;-) Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from diskless7.axs2000.net ([209.120.196.45]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506742A2F5 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:25:12 -0500 Received: from [64.80.74.72] (ppp-ptc-pm3-07-024.fiberlynx.net [64.80.74.72]) by diskless7.axs2000.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g17GONr25047 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:24:23 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:25:11 -0500 Subject: New Styles From: Bill Wible Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message As far as adding new styles - remember - there have to be enough people brewing those styles and entering them in competitions to support having a separate style category for each style, or it will just end up being combined with some other category in the competition anyway. Having participated in running and organizing a competition for the first time last year, I can now appreciate the work that goes into it. One of the hardest things I found was deciding to do with categories that had only 2 or 3 beers entered in them. I have always contended since my earliest experiences with beer competitions that it was unfair to have categories combined. It was pointed out by someone else yesterday, for example that American and English IPA's get judged side by side. We all know that the American examples, which are heavy with grapefruit and cascade are favored by judges and really stand out next to the English examples. o brewers brewing English style IPA's have a built-in disadvantage to overcome. But this is nothing compared to the light lagers category, which is always a mish-mash of 7 or 8 different styles. You have North German Pilseners, Bohemian Pilseners, American Lagers, American Cream Ale, Dortmunder Export, Munich Helles, Classic American Pilsener (or Pre-pro Lager - another style that is supposedly "making a comeback") and I'm sure I missed a couple. The styles always end up pitted against each other in the same category - and its not fair. A really good Cream Ale just will have no chance against any Pilsener that is even decent. That's just the way it goes. It happens every time. And the whole reason these categories get combined like this in the first place is that there aren't enough entries in each category for each to stand on its own. You can't keep them separate when there's only 2 entries. That would be giving away ribbons by default. And now you guys are saying you want more categories - to end up with 2 or 3 beers in each. We already have judges who can't judge mead, cider, Mild Ale, CAP, and many of the already included lesser known styles. And you want to add more? Like I said, they're just going to end up being combined with other categories at competition time anyway when 2 or 3 beers get entered. And my personal feeling is that these lesser known and lesser appreciated categories will not have a fair chance and will get blown out of the water by the better known and appreciated categories, so I wouldn't bother to waste my time brewing new, under-appreciated and unknown styles, even if they're added to the "official" BJCP guidelines. That's my feeling. Other comments? Bill -------------------------- Brew By You 3504 Cottman Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19149 215-335-BREW (PA) 215-335-0712 (Fax) www.brewbyyou.net --------------------------- --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.246]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506742A336 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:51:13 -0500 Received: from pool-63.49.55.240.tmpa.grid.net ([63.49.55.240] helo=beernazimindspring) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16YrlM-0005RU-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:51:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c1aff9$eca469c0$f037313f`at`com> From: "Wayne Wambles" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: In response to Doherty and other issues Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:07:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message One of my main concerns is regarding the comment that Irish-style ale doesn't exist. It is very much a reality and the first one was documented as being produced in Ireland in 1956(pg.111, Beer Companion, Michael Jackson). Other examples(as noted on the same page) are the Irish made Killians(Pelforth) that is actually too big for this particular style at 6.5ABV but is an ale and the American made Killians which actually is produced with a lager yeast at slightly out of range temperatures so as to add some esters yet is a little closer overall to this style. An example of this particular style that is closer to the professional panel of blind tasting's guidelines is Caffrey's(minus the use of Eroica hops). And let's not forget about one of the American brewpubs that may have brought this style in to the light for the American commercial market, McGuire's(Pensacola, FL, 1989). Other examples of style? Smithwick's Export and Kilkenny(which are actually the same beers that are made in different markets). Not only does this style exist(Irish-style amber) but it is thriving in the U.S. market. It is a training wheels beer for those that go to brewpubs for a beer and progress from relatively bland blonde ales to malt oriented red beers. It has no place as an American style. It is too malty for an American Amber. The hop character(I feel) should be English in origin yet most references state the use of Eroica for some reason. The ceiling for gravity is below that of American Amber making it more social yet the malt complexity and the use of extended boils for caramelization or sometimes excessive use of caramel malts lends a complex rich malt character that actually makes it deceiving for a beer that is generally no stronger that 4.8ABV. The base bittering hops should be the focal point of hop additions for this particular style and this style should have a little flavor hop additions as well but should be void of any aroma from hop additions. Even though the PPBT(professional panel of blind tasting, the guidelines that the GABF and WBC use) states that diacetyl should be absent from this particular style it seems to be something that Jackson constantly notes tasting in better examples of this style. Maybe that should be a consideration for the skeleton of the BJCP guidelines. Do we consider American Light Lager and American Premium Lager to be synonymous? Then why should we flight Blonde and Golden together? These were created with the same intentions as Light Lager and Premium Lager producers yet their producers were limited by a lack of refrigeration or a lack of time to lager. The only thing that I could possibly see being done with these two(as far as putting them into one category) would be to extend the IBU limit so that golden ale would fit into this. Golden ale is described as being crip and dry palated with significant to low floral hop aroma, light malt sweetness and low to medium bitterness. To me this sounds too full and aggressive for a Blonde Ale. As for separating IPA into two categories( English/American) I have been and will always be for that decision. Why is this taking so long for the BJCP to do? It is an obvious addition that must be made. Maybe a good classification for the Strong Ale that Doherty mentions would be American Strong Ale. Some examples would be Mogul Ale(Rogue) and Red Rocket(Bear Republic). These tend to be loaded down with American hops and have a complex malt expression as well. Basically an American version of an English-style winter warmer. And Doherty is correct, these tend to have no apparent oxidation of alcohol. I am definitely for bringing the Malt Liquor category back under Specialty American Lagers. It is a very interesting style. It has an overwhelming malt character. This is still alive and well in the U.S. and if you pay attention to the winner's lists for the GABF and WBC in previous years you will see that malt liquors typically dominate the American Specialty Lager category. Mark, in one of Paul's earlier responses he commented on the fact that the AHA was paying attention and documenting the number of entries in categories. As far as how this is done exactly, I do not know. Maybe you should e-mail Paul? Take care of yourselves, Wayne Wambles Buckhead Brewery & Grill Tallahassee FL --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.95.144]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506842A388 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:16:16 -0500 Received: from j ([68.80.245.205]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020207171615.VUE27110.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com`at`j> for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:16:15 -0800 X-Sender: rust1d`at`pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Demo Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:15:33 -0800 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: John Varady Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Philadelphia Area - War Of The Worts 7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <20020207171615.VUE27110.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com`at`j> X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Here's a quick reminder that the 7th Annual War Of The Worts will be taking place at the Drafting Room in Springhouse, PA on Feb 23rd. As usual, you can expect your homebrew to be judged by top notch BJCP judges and when your beer wins, you can expect a top notch prize and ribbon to match. Entries are being accepted now! Deadline for entries is Fed 17th, so you still have plenty of time to ship or deliver your homebrew, but get on it! No time like the present, right? Check the website at http://www.keystonehops.org/worts/worts7.htm for shipping and drop off locations, entry forms, labels, and directions to the contest. Awards cermony will be held around 4:30, but you are welcome to come early and enjoy the wonderful beer and food selection at the Drafting Room. JUDGES! If you've judged with us in the past, you know we host one of the best afternoons of judging around and we expect to see you back this year. If you haven't judged the War before, we'd love to have your pallet as a soldier in this beery battle of the senses. Please sign up on line at http://www.keystonehops.org/worts/judgereg.cfm See you there, John Varady Glenside, PA --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from thunder.joss.ucar.edu ([128.117.90.64]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC506942A41D for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 13:29:06 -0500 Received: from virga.joss.ucar.edu (virga [128.117.90.97]) by thunder.joss.ucar.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25083 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:29:05 -0700 (MST) From: "John J. Allison" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Received: (from john`at`localhost) by virga.joss.ucar.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19505 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:29:04 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:29:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200202071829.LAA19505`at`virga.joss.ucar.edu> To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message 13th Annual Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition Hop Barley and the Alers invite you to enter the 13th Annual Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition to be held at The Falling Rock Tap House in Denver, Colorado. The competition will take place on March 30th, 2001, with judging from 9:00am to 5:00pm and an awards ceremony to follow at approximately 6:00pm. Entries are to arrive between Monday, March 11th and 5:00 pm Friday March 22th 2001. The Dredhop is AHA and BJCP sanctioned and is an MCAB Qualifying Event. *** Potential judges, stewards, and other volunteers are encouraged to immediately contact the competition organizers via email at dredhop`at`hopbarley.org. All experience levels are welcome. Further information, including complete and detailed rules, mail/drop-off locations, etc is available at the competition website: http://hopbarley.org/dredhop/ You may also contact the competition director via email: Bob Kauffman, dredhop`at`hopbarley.org. -- John Allison webmaster`at`hopbarley.org --Message_Part_SYNC508142A689-- --Next_Part_SYNC508142A689--