Subject: Digest for the period 1/31/02 - 2/1/02 Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 01:01:04 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5" --Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: World Beer Cup Styles (Houseman, David L) re: Plastic Bottles (Eric Miller) plastic bottles (Tyler Yarbrough) Re: Digest for the period 1/30/02 - 1/31/02 (John C. Tull) RE: Digest for the period 1/26/02 - 1/27/02 (Paul Gatza) --Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5" --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from bbmail1-out.unisys.com ([192.63.108.40]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC48984252CA for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:19:32 -0500 Received: from us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com (us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com [192.63.78.151]) by bbmail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01671 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:19:23 GMT Received: by us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:19:30 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA064`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: World Beer Cup Styles Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:06:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I agree with Steve that it's not the place of the BJCP to provide direction for the commercial competitions. They are dealing with the realities of judging what commercial breweries are brewing and delivering to the public. This is often driven by fads, local customs, and commercial interests. The BJCP is about homebrewing. Certainly styles may become popular with homebrewers, become common in local competitions and the ground swell would be to have them included in the BJCP style guidelines. Below are the categories for the upcoming World Beer Cup. There certainly is an overlap in the styles with those of = the BJCP but there are also some noteable differences. =20 ___1. Non-Alcoholic Malt Tonic=20 ___2. Non-Alcoholic (Beer) Malt Beverage=20 ___3. American-Style Lager/Ale or Cream Ale=20 ___4. American-Style Wheat Ale or Lager=20 ___5. American-style Rye Ale or Lager=20 ___6. Japanese Sake-Yeast Beer=20 ___7. Fruit Beer=20 ___8. Chocolate/Cocoa Flavored Beer=20 ___9. Herb and Spice Beer=20 ___10. Specialty Beer=20 ___11. Specialty Honey Lager or Ale=20 ___12. Experimental Beer=20 ___13. Smoke-Flavored Beer=20 ___14. European-Style Low-Alcohol Lager/German-Style Licht(bier)=20 ___15. German-Style Pilsener=20 ___16. Bohemian-Style Pilsener=20 ___17. M=FCnchner-Style Helles=20 ___18. European-Style Pilsener=20 ___19. Dortmunder/European-Style Export=20 ___20. Vienna-Style Lager=20 ___21. German-Style Marzen/Oktoberfest=20 ___22. European-Style Dark/M=FCnchner Dunkel=20 ___23. German-Style Schwarzbier=20 ___24. Traditional German-style Bock=20 ___25. German-Style Helles Bock/Maibock=20 ___26. German-Style Strong Bock Beer=20 _____27. American-Style Light Lager=20 _____28. American-Style Lager=20 _____29. American-Style Premium Lager=20 _____30. American-Style Specialty Lager=20 _____31. American-Style Amber Lager=20 _____32. American-Style Dark Lager=20 _____33. Australasian or Tropical-Style Light Lager=20 _____34. Belgian-Style White (or wit)/Belgian-Style Wheat=20 _____35. Belgian-Style Lambic=20 _____36. Belgian-Style Flanders/Oud Bruin ale=20 _____37. Belgian-Style Pale Ale=20 _____38. Belgian-Style Pale Strong Ale=20 _____39. Belgian-Style Dark Strong Ale=20 _____40. Belgian-Style Dubbel=20 _____41. Belgian-Style Tripel=20 _____42. Other Belgian-Style Ale=20 _____43. French-Style Biere de Garde=20 _____44. French-Belgian Style Saison=20 _____45. Classic English-Style Pale Ale=20 _____46. English-Style India Pale Ale=20 _____47. Ordinary Bitter=20 _____48. (Special) Best Bitter=20 _____49. (Extra Special) Strong Bitter=20 _____50. Scottish-Style Ale=20 _____51. English-Style Mild Ale=20 _____52. English-Style Brown Ale=20 _____53. Old Ale=20 _____54. Strong Ale=20 _____55. Strong Scotch Ale=20 _____56. Other Strong Ale or Lager=20 _____57. Barley Wine-Style Ale=20 _____58. Robust Porter=20 _____59. Brown Porter=20 _____60. Sweet Stout=20 _____61. Oatmeal Stout=20 _____62. Imperial Stout=20 _____63. German-Style Kolsch/Koln-style Kolsch=20 _____64. German-Style Brown Ale/Dusseldorf-Style Altbier=20 _____65. Berliner-Style Weisse (Wheat)=20 _____66. South German-Style Weizen/Weissbier=20 _____67. South German-Style Dunkel Weizen/ Dunkel Weissbier=20 _____68. South German-Style Weizen-bock/ Weissbock=20 _____69. Irish-Style Red Ale=20 _____70. Classic Irish-Style Dry Stout=20 _____71. Foreign-Style Stout=20 _____72. Golden or Blonde Ale=20 _____73. American-Style Pale Ale=20 _____74. American-Style India Pale Ale=20 _____75. American-Style Amber/Red Ale=20 _____76. American-Style Brown Ale=20 =20 Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from xionics.com ([206.67.17.3]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC48984252F2 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:28:17 -0500 Received: from leonardo.xionics.com (IDENT:emiller`at`leonardo.xionics.com [172.20.6.108]) by xionics.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19563 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:28:12 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Miller Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: re: Plastic Bottles Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:47:50 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02013110281303.25036`at`leonardo.xionics.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Mark Tumarkin writes: "Remember that the reason for requiring plain bottles is to maintain anonymity for impartial judging. You don't want someone to be able to recognize the bottles as being those sent by a particular brewer." I think that the current rule falls short of this goal. There are plenty of bottle shapes out there that can be used legally according to the BJCP guidelines. If I were an unscrupulous brewer who knew a few unscrupulous judges, I'd bottle my beer in Negra Modelo bottles or some other odd shape. I'd be in compliance with the letter but not the spirit of the rule. In reality, I'd be surprised to find out that there are any such unscrupulous brewers out there that just HAVE to win that vial of yeast or hat or whatever the prize. And even if there were, I think they'd be hard pressed to convince any judges to go along with their diabolical Negra Modelo bottle plans. I agree with both Mark and Bert that plastic should be allowed, along with clear bottles. The big issues to me as a brewer would be the possibility that the quality of my beer will suffer by the time it reaches the judges. Oxidation and light-struck flavors would be harder to prevent, but these are normal off-flavors that can show up in brown-bottled beer too. The judge's job should be to detect the flavors, not to mandate how the beer is packaged. -- Eric Miller --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.241]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC48994253AF for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:59:37 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQT00I3KB7D98`at`mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:59:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:59:46 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: plastic bottles To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C597802.618F2ED2`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message If plastic bottles are good enough for Anchor Brewing Co, we will probably be seeing more of them in the future for home brewers. Advantages cited by Anchor are: 1)Oxygen scavenging lining inproves shelf life, 2)Lighter weight (dramatically!) reduces shipping costs, 3)unbreakability reduces shrinkage, 4)slightly smaller diameter for easier packing. 5)you can sell 'em at a ball game! Having seen them, you almost can't tell the difference in the bottles until you pick them up. I expect to see them at my local home brew supply shop (Oak Barrel, in Berkely, CA...shameless plug..) any day. I can't think of any reason not to allow them in competition. By the way, get your entries together for the World Cup of Beer! See our website for details: www.bayareamashers.org If you havn't yet signed up to judge, go to the website and register online! cheers\_/ Tyler Yarbrough --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from equinox.unr.edu ([134.197.1.2]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC49004253C7 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:11:06 -0500 Received: from jctull.biology.unr.edu (jctull.biology.unr.edu [134.197.55.114]) by equinox.unr.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g0VHEog21434 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:14:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:11:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/30/02 - 1/31/02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: "John C. Tull" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <8310126C-166D-11D6-8235-0030656E0756`at`unr.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message On Wednesday, January 30, 2002, at 10:04 PM, Wayne Wambles wrote: > I had the honor of using these style guidelines to judge the Best > Florida > Beer Competition this past weekend. The coverage of styles is more > thorough > than the BJCP guidelines. I would qualify this statement by saying that the breadth of styles is greater, but that the level of detail in style descriptions is much less complete than the BJCP style guidelines. There are some very interesting styles included in the World Beer Cup styles. Of course, anybody can write up a description in greater detail (as needed for BJCP pruposes) and have it considered for inclusion in the next revision of the BJCP guidelines. The process was touched upon in the stout debate recently. Perhaps the formal steps for doing this can be detailed by someone with more knowledge on the matter. John --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mailman.aob.org ([206.168.226.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4905425509 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:26:35 -0500 Received: from aob21 (unassigned.aob.org [206.168.226.14] (may be forged)) by mailman.aob.org (Build 98 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00967 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:25:44 -0700 From: "Paul Gatza" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Digest for the period 1/26/02 - 1/27/02 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:26:51 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Wayne asked "Where is the Irish-style amber ale category?" Here is the one that has been accepted for use in the PPBT and World Beer Cup judging. Irish-Style Red Ale Irish-style red ales range from light red-amber-copper to light brown in color. These ales have a medium hop bitterness and flavor. They often do not have hop aroma. Irish-style red ales have low to medium candy-like caramel sweetness and a medium body. The style may have low levels of fruity-ester flavor and aroma. Diacetyl should be absent. Chill haze is allowable at cold temperatures. Slight yeast haze is acceptable for bottle-conditioned products. Original Gravity (Plato): 1.040-1.048 (10-12 Plato) Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (Plato): 1.010-1.014 (2.5-3.5 Plato) Alcohol by Weight (Volume): 3.2-3.6 percent (4-4.5 percent) Bitterness (IBU): 22-28 Color SRM (EBC): 11-18 (22-36 EBC) Regarding the addition of a category for beer made with sake yeast in the AOB style guidelines for the 2002 World Beer Cup, there were several entries from Japanese breweries in the experimental category for the 2000 World Beer Cup listing this process. The addition of them to the AOB Beer Style guidelines reflected that development in what is being brewed commercially. Wayne opines "The BJCP should be setting standards for the PPBT, not the other way around." BJCP judges do set the standards for the PPBT when they send me comments about the guidelines. Comments from BJCP judges that are sent to me are included in the annual review and updating of the style guidelines. Also included in the review are comments from judges of the GABF and World Beer Cup. One of the strengths of the PPBT and World Beer Cup judging is the international diversity, particularly with the World Beer Cup, which helps improve the guidelines with each competition. The primary focus of the PPBT and World Beer Cup judging is picking the winners. Providing feedback is secondary to that and limited by the amount of time available to judge the nearly 2000 beers in the PPBT in five sessions. Also, beers are not scored as the ability to calibrate the system on such a diverse level is not practical in such a limited time frame. Now where is my soapbox? Oh, here it is. My view is that the guidelines are weak in the areas that are being brewed, but not entered or represented by judges from those countries. One example of this weakness would be brewing with non-barley fermentables. They are currently lumped in in a specialty beers category, but vast areas of the world where millet or corn beers, for example, are unrepresented in all guidelines in the diversity of products I assume is being brewed, mostly at homes. BJCP and AOB do a great job on the westernized styles, and as the world continues to shrink, I think we should attempt to catalog those more indigenous styles, whether American homebrewers or international professional brewers are making them or not. We don't need to include them in competitions, but I do believe there is a service to be provided in preserving style knowledge as we enter a period of large international brewing consolidation. --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5-- --Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5-- Subject: Digest for the period 1/31/02 - 2/1/02 Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 01:01:04 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5" --Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: World Beer Cup Styles (Houseman, David L) re: Plastic Bottles (Eric Miller) plastic bottles (Tyler Yarbrough) Re: Digest for the period 1/30/02 - 1/31/02 (John C. Tull) RE: Digest for the period 1/26/02 - 1/27/02 (Paul Gatza) --Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5" --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from bbmail1-out.unisys.com ([192.63.108.40]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC48984252CA for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:19:32 -0500 Received: from us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com (us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com [192.63.78.151]) by bbmail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01671 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:19:23 GMT Received: by us-bb-gtwy-1.bb.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:19:30 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA064`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: World Beer Cup Styles Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:06:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I agree with Steve that it's not the place of the BJCP to provide direction for the commercial competitions. They are dealing with the realities of judging what commercial breweries are brewing and delivering to the public. This is often driven by fads, local customs, and commercial interests. The BJCP is about homebrewing. Certainly styles may become popular with homebrewers, become common in local competitions and the ground swell would be to have them included in the BJCP style guidelines. Below are the categories for the upcoming World Beer Cup. There certainly is an overlap in the styles with those of = the BJCP but there are also some noteable differences. =20 ___1. Non-Alcoholic Malt Tonic=20 ___2. Non-Alcoholic (Beer) Malt Beverage=20 ___3. American-Style Lager/Ale or Cream Ale=20 ___4. American-Style Wheat Ale or Lager=20 ___5. American-style Rye Ale or Lager=20 ___6. Japanese Sake-Yeast Beer=20 ___7. Fruit Beer=20 ___8. Chocolate/Cocoa Flavored Beer=20 ___9. Herb and Spice Beer=20 ___10. Specialty Beer=20 ___11. Specialty Honey Lager or Ale=20 ___12. Experimental Beer=20 ___13. Smoke-Flavored Beer=20 ___14. European-Style Low-Alcohol Lager/German-Style Licht(bier)=20 ___15. German-Style Pilsener=20 ___16. Bohemian-Style Pilsener=20 ___17. M=FCnchner-Style Helles=20 ___18. European-Style Pilsener=20 ___19. Dortmunder/European-Style Export=20 ___20. Vienna-Style Lager=20 ___21. German-Style Marzen/Oktoberfest=20 ___22. European-Style Dark/M=FCnchner Dunkel=20 ___23. German-Style Schwarzbier=20 ___24. Traditional German-style Bock=20 ___25. German-Style Helles Bock/Maibock=20 ___26. German-Style Strong Bock Beer=20 _____27. American-Style Light Lager=20 _____28. American-Style Lager=20 _____29. American-Style Premium Lager=20 _____30. American-Style Specialty Lager=20 _____31. American-Style Amber Lager=20 _____32. American-Style Dark Lager=20 _____33. Australasian or Tropical-Style Light Lager=20 _____34. Belgian-Style White (or wit)/Belgian-Style Wheat=20 _____35. Belgian-Style Lambic=20 _____36. Belgian-Style Flanders/Oud Bruin ale=20 _____37. Belgian-Style Pale Ale=20 _____38. Belgian-Style Pale Strong Ale=20 _____39. Belgian-Style Dark Strong Ale=20 _____40. Belgian-Style Dubbel=20 _____41. Belgian-Style Tripel=20 _____42. Other Belgian-Style Ale=20 _____43. French-Style Biere de Garde=20 _____44. French-Belgian Style Saison=20 _____45. Classic English-Style Pale Ale=20 _____46. English-Style India Pale Ale=20 _____47. Ordinary Bitter=20 _____48. (Special) Best Bitter=20 _____49. (Extra Special) Strong Bitter=20 _____50. Scottish-Style Ale=20 _____51. English-Style Mild Ale=20 _____52. English-Style Brown Ale=20 _____53. Old Ale=20 _____54. Strong Ale=20 _____55. Strong Scotch Ale=20 _____56. Other Strong Ale or Lager=20 _____57. Barley Wine-Style Ale=20 _____58. Robust Porter=20 _____59. Brown Porter=20 _____60. Sweet Stout=20 _____61. Oatmeal Stout=20 _____62. Imperial Stout=20 _____63. German-Style Kolsch/Koln-style Kolsch=20 _____64. German-Style Brown Ale/Dusseldorf-Style Altbier=20 _____65. Berliner-Style Weisse (Wheat)=20 _____66. South German-Style Weizen/Weissbier=20 _____67. South German-Style Dunkel Weizen/ Dunkel Weissbier=20 _____68. South German-Style Weizen-bock/ Weissbock=20 _____69. Irish-Style Red Ale=20 _____70. Classic Irish-Style Dry Stout=20 _____71. Foreign-Style Stout=20 _____72. Golden or Blonde Ale=20 _____73. American-Style Pale Ale=20 _____74. American-Style India Pale Ale=20 _____75. American-Style Amber/Red Ale=20 _____76. American-Style Brown Ale=20 =20 Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from xionics.com ([206.67.17.3]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC48984252F2 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:28:17 -0500 Received: from leonardo.xionics.com (IDENT:emiller`at`leonardo.xionics.com [172.20.6.108]) by xionics.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19563 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:28:12 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Miller Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: re: Plastic Bottles Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:47:50 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02013110281303.25036`at`leonardo.xionics.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Mark Tumarkin writes: "Remember that the reason for requiring plain bottles is to maintain anonymity for impartial judging. You don't want someone to be able to recognize the bottles as being those sent by a particular brewer." I think that the current rule falls short of this goal. There are plenty of bottle shapes out there that can be used legally according to the BJCP guidelines. If I were an unscrupulous brewer who knew a few unscrupulous judges, I'd bottle my beer in Negra Modelo bottles or some other odd shape. I'd be in compliance with the letter but not the spirit of the rule. In reality, I'd be surprised to find out that there are any such unscrupulous brewers out there that just HAVE to win that vial of yeast or hat or whatever the prize. And even if there were, I think they'd be hard pressed to convince any judges to go along with their diabolical Negra Modelo bottle plans. I agree with both Mark and Bert that plastic should be allowed, along with clear bottles. The big issues to me as a brewer would be the possibility that the quality of my beer will suffer by the time it reaches the judges. Oxidation and light-struck flavors would be harder to prevent, but these are normal off-flavors that can show up in brown-bottled beer too. The judge's job should be to detect the flavors, not to mandate how the beer is packaged. -- Eric Miller --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.241]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC48994253AF for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:59:37 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQT00I3KB7D98`at`mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:59:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:59:46 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: plastic bottles To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C597802.618F2ED2`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message If plastic bottles are good enough for Anchor Brewing Co, we will probably be seeing more of them in the future for home brewers. Advantages cited by Anchor are: 1)Oxygen scavenging lining inproves shelf life, 2)Lighter weight (dramatically!) reduces shipping costs, 3)unbreakability reduces shrinkage, 4)slightly smaller diameter for easier packing. 5)you can sell 'em at a ball game! Having seen them, you almost can't tell the difference in the bottles until you pick them up. I expect to see them at my local home brew supply shop (Oak Barrel, in Berkely, CA...shameless plug..) any day. I can't think of any reason not to allow them in competition. By the way, get your entries together for the World Cup of Beer! See our website for details: www.bayareamashers.org If you havn't yet signed up to judge, go to the website and register online! cheers\_/ Tyler Yarbrough --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from equinox.unr.edu ([134.197.1.2]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC49004253C7 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:11:06 -0500 Received: from jctull.biology.unr.edu (jctull.biology.unr.edu [134.197.55.114]) by equinox.unr.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g0VHEog21434 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:14:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:11:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/30/02 - 1/31/02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: "John C. Tull" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <8310126C-166D-11D6-8235-0030656E0756`at`unr.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message On Wednesday, January 30, 2002, at 10:04 PM, Wayne Wambles wrote: > I had the honor of using these style guidelines to judge the Best > Florida > Beer Competition this past weekend. The coverage of styles is more > thorough > than the BJCP guidelines. I would qualify this statement by saying that the breadth of styles is greater, but that the level of detail in style descriptions is much less complete than the BJCP style guidelines. There are some very interesting styles included in the World Beer Cup styles. Of course, anybody can write up a description in greater detail (as needed for BJCP pruposes) and have it considered for inclusion in the next revision of the BJCP guidelines. The process was touched upon in the stout debate recently. Perhaps the formal steps for doing this can be detailed by someone with more knowledge on the matter. John --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mailman.aob.org ([206.168.226.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4905425509 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:26:35 -0500 Received: from aob21 (unassigned.aob.org [206.168.226.14] (may be forged)) by mailman.aob.org (Build 98 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00967 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:25:44 -0700 From: "Paul Gatza" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Digest for the period 1/26/02 - 1/27/02 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:26:51 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Wayne asked "Where is the Irish-style amber ale category?" Here is the one that has been accepted for use in the PPBT and World Beer Cup judging. Irish-Style Red Ale Irish-style red ales range from light red-amber-copper to light brown in color. These ales have a medium hop bitterness and flavor. They often do not have hop aroma. Irish-style red ales have low to medium candy-like caramel sweetness and a medium body. The style may have low levels of fruity-ester flavor and aroma. Diacetyl should be absent. Chill haze is allowable at cold temperatures. Slight yeast haze is acceptable for bottle-conditioned products. Original Gravity (Plato): 1.040-1.048 (10-12 Plato) Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (Plato): 1.010-1.014 (2.5-3.5 Plato) Alcohol by Weight (Volume): 3.2-3.6 percent (4-4.5 percent) Bitterness (IBU): 22-28 Color SRM (EBC): 11-18 (22-36 EBC) Regarding the addition of a category for beer made with sake yeast in the AOB style guidelines for the 2002 World Beer Cup, there were several entries from Japanese breweries in the experimental category for the 2000 World Beer Cup listing this process. The addition of them to the AOB Beer Style guidelines reflected that development in what is being brewed commercially. Wayne opines "The BJCP should be setting standards for the PPBT, not the other way around." BJCP judges do set the standards for the PPBT when they send me comments about the guidelines. Comments from BJCP judges that are sent to me are included in the annual review and updating of the style guidelines. Also included in the review are comments from judges of the GABF and World Beer Cup. One of the strengths of the PPBT and World Beer Cup judging is the international diversity, particularly with the World Beer Cup, which helps improve the guidelines with each competition. The primary focus of the PPBT and World Beer Cup judging is picking the winners. Providing feedback is secondary to that and limited by the amount of time available to judge the nearly 2000 beers in the PPBT in five sessions. Also, beers are not scored as the ability to calibrate the system on such a diverse level is not practical in such a limited time frame. Now where is my soapbox? Oh, here it is. My view is that the guidelines are weak in the areas that are being brewed, but not entered or represented by judges from those countries. One example of this weakness would be brewing with non-barley fermentables. They are currently lumped in in a specialty beers category, but vast areas of the world where millet or corn beers, for example, are unrepresented in all guidelines in the diversity of products I assume is being brewed, mostly at homes. BJCP and AOB do a great job on the westernized styles, and as the world continues to shrink, I think we should attempt to catalog those more indigenous styles, whether American homebrewers or international professional brewers are making them or not. We don't need to include them in competitions, but I do believe there is a service to be provided in preserving style knowledge as we enter a period of large international brewing consolidation. --Message_Part_SYNC49134256C5-- --Next_Part_SYNC49134256C5--