Subject: Digest for the period 1/25/02 - 1/26/02 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:03:54 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC4769422606" --Next_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Saranac "Pils"??? (Jeffrey Pinhey) Beerspace (Joel Plutchak) Beer Style Graphing (Keith Looney) BJCP vs PPBT (Wayne Wambles) --Next_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC4769422606" --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47534221D1 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:02:33 -0500 Received: from [10.40.151.19] ([142.177.232.33]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:01:59 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:59:05 -0400 Subject: Saranac "Pils"??? From: Jeffrey Pinhey Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Thomas O'Connor wrote: > Saranac Pilsener: "Saranac Pilsener is a light-bodied American Wheat > Beer that is judiciously hopped with Cascade and Tettnang hops. "Dry > Hopping" imparts the distinctive hop aroma and finish." But is it good beer? --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from staff2.cso.uiuc.edu ([128.174.5.53]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4753422205 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:16:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (plutchak`at`localhost [127.0.0.1]) by staff2.cso.uiuc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PEGLt29379 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:16:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:16:20 -0600 (CST) From: Joel Plutchak Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-X-Sender: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Beerspace Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Steve Casselman writes: > This is a little tongue-in-cheek but I have a degree in mathematics > and the way I look at each style is kind of like a vector.. so if a > point in space is (x,y,z) a point in beer space is (IBUs,SRMs,FG,OG...) > put as many different variables as you want. After that you do that you > define a "metric" or distance formula. Exactly! That sounded quite familiar so I Googled the rec.food.drink.beer newsgroup. Seems I advanced a similar mathemetical (though not rigorously defined) concept for beerstyles in January of 1997: :I *do* think high-adjunct beers are not near the center of any :reasonably-defined beerspace (any N-dimensional coordinate system :used to classify fermented malt beverages). Great minds think alike. :-) Joel Plutchak Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots Champaign, Illinois --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from spr-smtp-sun.choiceone.net ([64.65.234.98]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47544222EC for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:44:18 -0500 Received: (qmail 15751 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 15:44:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moonbrew.com) (64.65.252.10) by spr-smtp-sun.choiceone.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 15:44:11 -0000 Message-ID: <3C517E4D.2050001`at`moonbrew.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:48:29 -0500 From: Keith Looney Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Beer Style Graphing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message With all of the discussion of beer style space, you might find it useful to be able to visualize how beer styles are related. Steve Casselman's mathematical approach reminded me of a program I wrote to do just that. I wrote a Java program which displays beer styles graphically with IBU's plotted against starting gravity. Additionally, each style is displayed in an approximation of its color. I wrote this program a few years ago so it needs to be updated to include the current guidelines, but it is very useful to visualize how different styles are related. My personal interest was to find the "holes", the areas where a beer with given statistics would not fit into any of the current styles. The lagers are very interesting in this respect. You can try this out at http://www.moonbrew.com/moonbrew/beerview/index.html . I have a whole list of improvements that I would like to add some day, and I welcome any comments and suggestions that you might have. Have fun with it! Keith Looney Competition Registrar, Knickerbocker Battle of the Brews http://www.moonbrew.com/kbotb/index.html (This year's date is April 6. Most other details are unchanged. Site will be updated shortly) --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.226]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4756422375 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:03:05 -0500 Received: from pool-63.49.55.202.tmpa.grid.net ([63.49.55.202] helo=beernazimindspring) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16U9kk-0005bv-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:03:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c1a5c4$5c1c0dc0$ca37313f`at`com> From: "Wayne Wambles" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: BJCP vs PPBT Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:18:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I am curious as to why the BJCP does not separate English-style IPAs and American. This is something that the PPBT has been doing for at least the past 2-3 years. It would only be educational if the BJCP were to separate these two styles. Where is the Irish-style amber ale category? It is a heavily produced commercial style in America and probably the world. I have been told that this style is common place in Belgium amongst all the extravagant Belgian styles and has been in demand for some time there. The PPBT introduced a new category this year, Sake Beer. Define the underlying style and then use sake yeast to ferment the wort. Pretty interesting. The BJCP should be setting standards for the PPBT, not the other way around. The experimentation that homebrewers do should be responsible for the evolution of new styles of beer in the commercial industry. All the good stuff starts at home. Can we open up another door and at least get up to par with the PPBT guidelines? The styles are being produced commercially so surely they are being made at home. Wayne Wambles Buckhead Brewery Tallahassee FL --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606-- --Next_Part_SYNC4769422606-- Subject: Digest for the period 1/25/02 - 1/26/02 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:03:54 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC4769422606" --Next_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Saranac "Pils"??? (Jeffrey Pinhey) Beerspace (Joel Plutchak) Beer Style Graphing (Keith Looney) BJCP vs PPBT (Wayne Wambles) --Next_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC4769422606" --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47534221D1 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:02:33 -0500 Received: from [10.40.151.19] ([142.177.232.33]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:01:59 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:59:05 -0400 Subject: Saranac "Pils"??? From: Jeffrey Pinhey Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Thomas O'Connor wrote: > Saranac Pilsener: "Saranac Pilsener is a light-bodied American Wheat > Beer that is judiciously hopped with Cascade and Tettnang hops. "Dry > Hopping" imparts the distinctive hop aroma and finish." But is it good beer? --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from staff2.cso.uiuc.edu ([128.174.5.53]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4753422205 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:16:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (plutchak`at`localhost [127.0.0.1]) by staff2.cso.uiuc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PEGLt29379 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:16:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:16:20 -0600 (CST) From: Joel Plutchak Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-X-Sender: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Beerspace Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Steve Casselman writes: > This is a little tongue-in-cheek but I have a degree in mathematics > and the way I look at each style is kind of like a vector.. so if a > point in space is (x,y,z) a point in beer space is (IBUs,SRMs,FG,OG...) > put as many different variables as you want. After that you do that you > define a "metric" or distance formula. Exactly! That sounded quite familiar so I Googled the rec.food.drink.beer newsgroup. Seems I advanced a similar mathemetical (though not rigorously defined) concept for beerstyles in January of 1997: :I *do* think high-adjunct beers are not near the center of any :reasonably-defined beerspace (any N-dimensional coordinate system :used to classify fermented malt beverages). Great minds think alike. :-) Joel Plutchak Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots Champaign, Illinois --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from spr-smtp-sun.choiceone.net ([64.65.234.98]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47544222EC for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:44:18 -0500 Received: (qmail 15751 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 15:44:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moonbrew.com) (64.65.252.10) by spr-smtp-sun.choiceone.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 15:44:11 -0000 Message-ID: <3C517E4D.2050001`at`moonbrew.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:48:29 -0500 From: Keith Looney Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Beer Style Graphing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message With all of the discussion of beer style space, you might find it useful to be able to visualize how beer styles are related. Steve Casselman's mathematical approach reminded me of a program I wrote to do just that. I wrote a Java program which displays beer styles graphically with IBU's plotted against starting gravity. Additionally, each style is displayed in an approximation of its color. I wrote this program a few years ago so it needs to be updated to include the current guidelines, but it is very useful to visualize how different styles are related. My personal interest was to find the "holes", the areas where a beer with given statistics would not fit into any of the current styles. The lagers are very interesting in this respect. You can try this out at http://www.moonbrew.com/moonbrew/beerview/index.html . I have a whole list of improvements that I would like to add some day, and I welcome any comments and suggestions that you might have. Have fun with it! Keith Looney Competition Registrar, Knickerbocker Battle of the Brews http://www.moonbrew.com/kbotb/index.html (This year's date is April 6. Most other details are unchanged. Site will be updated shortly) --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.226]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4756422375 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:03:05 -0500 Received: from pool-63.49.55.202.tmpa.grid.net ([63.49.55.202] helo=beernazimindspring) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16U9kk-0005bv-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:03:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c1a5c4$5c1c0dc0$ca37313f`at`com> From: "Wayne Wambles" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: BJCP vs PPBT Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:18:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I am curious as to why the BJCP does not separate English-style IPAs and American. This is something that the PPBT has been doing for at least the past 2-3 years. It would only be educational if the BJCP were to separate these two styles. Where is the Irish-style amber ale category? It is a heavily produced commercial style in America and probably the world. I have been told that this style is common place in Belgium amongst all the extravagant Belgian styles and has been in demand for some time there. The PPBT introduced a new category this year, Sake Beer. Define the underlying style and then use sake yeast to ferment the wort. Pretty interesting. The BJCP should be setting standards for the PPBT, not the other way around. The experimentation that homebrewers do should be responsible for the evolution of new styles of beer in the commercial industry. All the good stuff starts at home. Can we open up another door and at least get up to par with the PPBT guidelines? The styles are being produced commercially so surely they are being made at home. Wayne Wambles Buckhead Brewery Tallahassee FL --Message_Part_SYNC4769422606-- --Next_Part_SYNC4769422606--