Subject: Digest for the period 1/24/02 - 1/25/02 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:02:25 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C" --Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Digest for the period 1/23/02 - 1/24/02 (Leo Koster) Recent Thread on Beer Styles, Hopping, Malt and Yeast Choice (Thomas O'Connor) First MCAB5 Qualifying Event - Last Call for judges (and entries)! (John B. Doherty) Beer Style Metric (Steve Casselman) --Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C" --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net ([167.142.225.202]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47314219A2 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:45:04 -0500 Received: from [167.142.21.213] (HELO netins.net) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP id 15090167 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:45:01 -0600 Message-ID: <3C5039A4.D99E7A47`at`netins.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:43:16 -0600 From: Leo Koster Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/23/02 - 1/24/02 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This is in response to the style guide postings of late. We have to have style guides for segregating beer into categories or classifications. If there are no guidelines can we really distinguish one beer from another enough to hold competitions? Should the judges require three bottles to taste the entries and place them into the most suitable category in their own opinion? The problem is that there are no defined walls or gaps but rather a continuous unbroken blend of malt, hop, alcohol, color, and flavor profiles. Arbitrary lines must be drawn. Sure there are some obvious lines, but there are many more subtle lines that have to be placed. It is kind of like geography. Sometimes a body of water is a delineator, but mostly there is nothing obvious. You can be standing on a spot and 6 inches away you are in a different state. No real difference, but the line has to be put somewhere. Unlike geography, beer styles are much more fluid. The style guides change to suit the way brewers' and judges' consensus see fit. No matter where the line is drawn, someone will think it should be different. People know the competition styles. If you choose to brew something that is out of a given style, it may well be a fantastic beer. I brew many things that are great, but would have a hard time winning in the base style that was used as a template. I simply share them with my friends and don't enter them into competitions. If it is ribbons you want, you need to adhere closer to the guidelines. If you brew for fun and uniqueness, take your own path. If you like most brewers want both, brew some to style and some for yourself. Hoppy brewing. Leo Koster --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from groucho ([12.45.239.69]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47334219C2 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:08:21 -0500 Received: from nehealth.org ([10.0.0.15]) by groucho (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0OHrBM20456 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:53:11 -0500 Received: from NEHDOM1-Message_Server by nehealth.org with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:08:18 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:08:03 -0500 From: "Thomas O'Connor" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Recent Thread on Beer Styles, Hopping, Malt and Yeast Choice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I read with interest recent threads regarding beer styles, hop, malt, and = yeast selection. As I do so, I sit drinking an interesting beer, quite = appropriate to the discussion. The label alone should summarize the = observation: Saranac Pilsener: "Saranac Pilsener is a light-bodied American Wheat Beer = that is judiciously hopped with Cascade and Tettnang hops. "Dry Hopping" = imparts the distinctive hop aroma and finish." No further comment. You Barleywine brewers and judges think YOU have = problems? Tom O'Connor Rockport, Maine --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from web20402.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.226.121]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4733421A2F for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20020124182122.1469.qmail`at`web20402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.245.160.2] by web20402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:21:22 PST Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:21:22 -0800 (PST) From: "John B. Doherty" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: First MCAB5 Qualifying Event - Last Call for judges (and entries)! To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Ladies and Gentlemen, It is now official that the Eighth Annual Boston Homebrew Competition on February 9th will be the first MCAB5 Qualifying Event of 2002. The entry deadline for BHC8 is Friday February 1st, so that's one week for those of you who want a first crack at MCAB5. Last Call!!! The "deadline" for signing up to judge is also Friday, February 1st, 2002. Contact the BHC8 Judge Organizer, Francois Espourteille at francois53`at`mediaone.net if you'd like to judge or steward at the competition. Full info can be found at http://www.wort.org/bhc.html Look for the BOS results to be posted here and the full results to be posted on the website above on the day after the competition. Cheers, -John Doherty Boston Wort Processors Boston Homebrew Competition Organizer dohertybrewing`at`yahoo.com www.wort.org/bhc.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.240]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4734421A70 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:01:48 -0500 Received: from mail2.vcc.com ([64.174.106.246]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQG000Q4I6XTI`at`mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from HILBERT (hilbert [192.168.0.153]) by mail2.vcc.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B36F373F2 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:02:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:57:01 -0800 From: Steve Casselman Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Beer Style Metric In-reply-to: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Joel Plutchak points out...... Well, what about those styles differentiated primarily on strength, color, yeast choice, or grain type? At some point we have to either realize there are bona fide ways to classify beers.... ------------------------------- This is a little tongue-in-cheek but I have a degree in mathematics and the way I look at each style is kind of like a vector.. so if a point in space is (x,y,z) a point in beer space is (IBUs,SRMs,FG,OG...) put as many different variables as you want. After that you do that you define a "metric" or distance formula. It usually something like given Beer1 = (IBU1, SRM1, ...) and Beer2 = (IBU2, SRM2, ...) The distance between them is (here is where you make something up:) |IBU1 - IBU2| + |SRM1 - SRM2| ... (reads the absolute value of IBU1 - IBU2 plus ...) Once you have a number you can talk about the "distance between" beer or the range of a beer style. Steve --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C-- --Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C-- Subject: Digest for the period 1/24/02 - 1/25/02 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:02:25 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C" --Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Digest for the period 1/23/02 - 1/24/02 (Leo Koster) Recent Thread on Beer Styles, Hopping, Malt and Yeast Choice (Thomas O'Connor) First MCAB5 Qualifying Event - Last Call for judges (and entries)! (John B. Doherty) Beer Style Metric (Steve Casselman) --Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C" --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net ([167.142.225.202]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47314219A2 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:45:04 -0500 Received: from [167.142.21.213] (HELO netins.net) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP id 15090167 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:45:01 -0600 Message-ID: <3C5039A4.D99E7A47`at`netins.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:43:16 -0600 From: Leo Koster Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/23/02 - 1/24/02 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This is in response to the style guide postings of late. We have to have style guides for segregating beer into categories or classifications. If there are no guidelines can we really distinguish one beer from another enough to hold competitions? Should the judges require three bottles to taste the entries and place them into the most suitable category in their own opinion? The problem is that there are no defined walls or gaps but rather a continuous unbroken blend of malt, hop, alcohol, color, and flavor profiles. Arbitrary lines must be drawn. Sure there are some obvious lines, but there are many more subtle lines that have to be placed. It is kind of like geography. Sometimes a body of water is a delineator, but mostly there is nothing obvious. You can be standing on a spot and 6 inches away you are in a different state. No real difference, but the line has to be put somewhere. Unlike geography, beer styles are much more fluid. The style guides change to suit the way brewers' and judges' consensus see fit. No matter where the line is drawn, someone will think it should be different. People know the competition styles. If you choose to brew something that is out of a given style, it may well be a fantastic beer. I brew many things that are great, but would have a hard time winning in the base style that was used as a template. I simply share them with my friends and don't enter them into competitions. If it is ribbons you want, you need to adhere closer to the guidelines. If you brew for fun and uniqueness, take your own path. If you like most brewers want both, brew some to style and some for yourself. Hoppy brewing. Leo Koster --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from groucho ([12.45.239.69]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC47334219C2 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:08:21 -0500 Received: from nehealth.org ([10.0.0.15]) by groucho (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0OHrBM20456 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:53:11 -0500 Received: from NEHDOM1-Message_Server by nehealth.org with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:08:18 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:08:03 -0500 From: "Thomas O'Connor" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Recent Thread on Beer Styles, Hopping, Malt and Yeast Choice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I read with interest recent threads regarding beer styles, hop, malt, and = yeast selection. As I do so, I sit drinking an interesting beer, quite = appropriate to the discussion. The label alone should summarize the = observation: Saranac Pilsener: "Saranac Pilsener is a light-bodied American Wheat Beer = that is judiciously hopped with Cascade and Tettnang hops. "Dry Hopping" = imparts the distinctive hop aroma and finish." No further comment. You Barleywine brewers and judges think YOU have = problems? Tom O'Connor Rockport, Maine --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from web20402.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.226.121]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4733421A2F for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20020124182122.1469.qmail`at`web20402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.245.160.2] by web20402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:21:22 PST Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:21:22 -0800 (PST) From: "John B. Doherty" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: First MCAB5 Qualifying Event - Last Call for judges (and entries)! To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Ladies and Gentlemen, It is now official that the Eighth Annual Boston Homebrew Competition on February 9th will be the first MCAB5 Qualifying Event of 2002. The entry deadline for BHC8 is Friday February 1st, so that's one week for those of you who want a first crack at MCAB5. Last Call!!! The "deadline" for signing up to judge is also Friday, February 1st, 2002. Contact the BHC8 Judge Organizer, Francois Espourteille at francois53`at`mediaone.net if you'd like to judge or steward at the competition. Full info can be found at http://www.wort.org/bhc.html Look for the BOS results to be posted here and the full results to be posted on the website above on the day after the competition. Cheers, -John Doherty Boston Wort Processors Boston Homebrew Competition Organizer dohertybrewing`at`yahoo.com www.wort.org/bhc.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.240]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC4734421A70 for judge`at`synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:01:48 -0500 Received: from mail2.vcc.com ([64.174.106.246]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQG000Q4I6XTI`at`mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from HILBERT (hilbert [192.168.0.153]) by mail2.vcc.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B36F373F2 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:02:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:57:01 -0800 From: Steve Casselman Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Beer Style Metric In-reply-to: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Joel Plutchak points out...... Well, what about those styles differentiated primarily on strength, color, yeast choice, or grain type? At some point we have to either realize there are bona fide ways to classify beers.... ------------------------------- This is a little tongue-in-cheek but I have a degree in mathematics and the way I look at each style is kind of like a vector.. so if a point in space is (x,y,z) a point in beer space is (IBUs,SRMs,FG,OG...) put as many different variables as you want. After that you do that you define a "metric" or distance formula. It usually something like given Beer1 = (IBU1, SRM1, ...) and Beer2 = (IBU2, SRM2, ...) The distance between them is (here is where you make something up:) |IBU1 - IBU2| + |SRM1 - SRM2| ... (reads the absolute value of IBU1 - IBU2 plus ...) Once you have a number you can talk about the "distance between" beer or the range of a beer style. Steve --Message_Part_SYNC4745421D2C-- --Next_Part_SYNC4745421D2C--