Subject: Digest for the period 1/12/02 - 1/13/02 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 01:04:03 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC445741A622" --Next_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Achel (Dennis Waltman) Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 (Lyle C. Brown) Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 (Lyle C. Brown) a couple more AHA comments (Mark Tumarkin) --Next_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC445741A622" --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from EMAIL.SABLAW.COM ([199.250.216.3]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC443741A276 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 05:45:36 -0500 Received: from DMZ-Message_Server by EMAIL.SABLAW.COM with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 05:46:24 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.5.1 Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 05:44:49 -0500 From: "Dennis Waltman" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Achel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Guinevere: 1.0.14 ; Sutherland Asbill Br X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Apparently, the one Belgian Trappist Monestaries that was not making beer = in the recent past has started making beer commericially (Achel I think it = is). Has anyone had their beers? What are they like? I know they sell only = locally, but there are travels among this fellowship and I was curious. I had read that a brewer from Westmalle help set things up. How do the = beers compare? And what does that mean about the traditional knowledge one studies and = relates on the exams when the trappist question is used? Seeing as there = are now one more Trappist Brewery in Belgium and the World. Finally I'd like to move my subscription to an email account that does not = apply a massive footer to all messages; how would I do that? (change to = pdwaltman`at`yahoo.com). Greetings to All, Dennis Waltman Firm footer below: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message from Sutherland Asbill & Brennan LLP and any attachments is confidential and intended only for the named recipient(s). If you have received this message in error, you are prohibited from copying, distributing or using the information. Please contact the sender immediately by return email and delete the original message. --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC444341A37C for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:56:05 -0500 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mTHJWdT3t/Sm6vTBOgwhM2GqCjuxVgP6zQ=="> Received: (from beerking1`at`juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GQYG3LSP; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:55:34 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: judge`at`synchro.com Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 Message-ID: <20020112.115537.544.3.beerking1`at`juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6,8-13 From: "Lyle C. Brown" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Paul Gatza writes: "AHA Administrator Kate Porter now is adding every BJCP-sanctioned competition to the Zymurgy and beertown calendars. ... AHA Project Coordinator Gary Glass has submitted a web change that will include a link to the BJCP site on the beertown calendar and sanctioned competition section of beertown." GREAT NEWS! Lyle C. Brown --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC444341A382 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:56:06 -0500 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mTHJWdT3t/SmLZVwYIMDI+UVHLtyutTENw=="> Received: (from beerking1`at`juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GQYG3LRB; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:55:34 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: judge`at`synchro.com Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:25:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 Message-ID: <20020112.115537.544.2.beerking1`at`juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-10,12-13,15-17 From: "Lyle C. Brown" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Randy Paul writes: > I'm curious why there is no category for West Coast Stouts? How > have these > entries been faring as specialty/experimental (quite different > competing > styles), as Porters (wrong roasted malt character), or as Stouts > (wrong > hops)? One might beg the question of what Randy considers the attributes of a "West Coast Stout" to be. Seems to me we have plenty of varieties of stouts in the subcategories. Only thing I can think of would be use of West Coast hops. Lyle C. Brown --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.50]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC445341A54C for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:11:25 -0500 Received: from 1cust44.tnt5.gainesville.fl.da.uu.net ([63.15.75.44] helo=markt) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Pa7C-0004I0-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:11:19 -0800 Message-ID: <002101c19bd7$3c327c20$2c4b0f3f`at`markt> From: "Mark Tumarkin" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: a couple more AHA comments Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:08:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This last Judgenet had some interesting posts concerning the AHA/BJCP issue. First the post from Paul Gatza in response to Bill's concerns about the Zymurgy for Beginners, and also Steve's promise on the same issue. I hope Bill, and others, have at least realized this was not an intentional act (though that doesn't excuse it either), and that the AHA staff and the Board of Advisers will certainly do all we can to make things more fair when it comes to reprint the Guide. Steve's post brings up a couple of issues too. Certainly, the Board of Advisors doesn't take orders from anyone in the AHA. But we don't give orders either.... our function as a Board is to give Advice. The current staff tends to take our advice fairly seriously, so it's a good relationship. Steve promises 'this will never happen again.' I'm sure this particular issue won't. Hopefully, this lesson will be applied to any similar issues that may come up in the future. There will probably be future fubars - we're all just human: the AHA staff, the AHA BOA, the BJCP officials and members, all of us. But from comments some of you have made here, it looks like we've at least been able to communicate that there has a change at the AHA and we're working to improve the brewing community as best we can. I'd also like to mention Paul's post concerning the AHA's policy towards advertising all homebrew competitions, whether registered/sponsored with the AHA or the BJCP. The AHA will be advertising these competitions both on our website and in Zymurgy. This is something we'd been talking about on the board before this recent AHA/BJCP flap started with the email concerning the upcoming BOA election and nominations. I'd wanted to say something about it earlier, but felt I couldn't till it was actually implemented. Another thing is that there will be time set aside at the Awards Banquet at the AHA National Conference for presenting pins to those BJCP judges who have achieved National or higher ranking, giving some recognition to the importance of the BJCP and the achievements and service of these particular judges. These may not be big issues, but they are indicative of the AHA's attitude toward the BJCP... someone earlier posted about wanting to see the AHA take some 'first steps' in improving the relationship. Hopefully, you'll see these actions in that light. I hope more of you will decide to work with the AHA towards common goals that effect our entire homebrewing community. This flap started with our call for nominations for the BOA. You can't make nominations, or be a Board member, unless you are first a member of the AHA. I don't think that's unreasonable. But people like Bill, Nathan, and others also serve a constructive role in criticizing the AHA when they feel it's appropriate. There have been fubars: past, present, and probably future. As I've said here before, I (and other board members) really want to hear your thoughts and concerns - hopefully focusing on constructive ideas & suggestions, not just bitching. We'll never make everyone happy, or get everyone to join or rejoin the AHA. As has been pointed out, the AHA is not the be all/end all in hombrewing; but it has been and is an important force in our hobby. And many of us are working to make it a positive part of the homebrewing community. We probably won't resolve everything to your satisfaction, but know that we'll at least look at your concerns and try to do what we can. We'd love to have you help us. Mark Tumarkin --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622-- --Next_Part_SYNC445741A622-- Subject: Digest for the period 1/12/02 - 1/13/02 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 01:04:03 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC445741A622" --Next_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Achel (Dennis Waltman) Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 (Lyle C. Brown) Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 (Lyle C. Brown) a couple more AHA comments (Mark Tumarkin) --Next_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC445741A622" --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from EMAIL.SABLAW.COM ([199.250.216.3]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC443741A276 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 05:45:36 -0500 Received: from DMZ-Message_Server by EMAIL.SABLAW.COM with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 05:46:24 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.5.1 Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 05:44:49 -0500 From: "Dennis Waltman" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Achel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Guinevere: 1.0.14 ; Sutherland Asbill Br X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Apparently, the one Belgian Trappist Monestaries that was not making beer = in the recent past has started making beer commericially (Achel I think it = is). Has anyone had their beers? What are they like? I know they sell only = locally, but there are travels among this fellowship and I was curious. I had read that a brewer from Westmalle help set things up. How do the = beers compare? And what does that mean about the traditional knowledge one studies and = relates on the exams when the trappist question is used? Seeing as there = are now one more Trappist Brewery in Belgium and the World. Finally I'd like to move my subscription to an email account that does not = apply a massive footer to all messages; how would I do that? (change to = pdwaltman`at`yahoo.com). Greetings to All, Dennis Waltman Firm footer below: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message from Sutherland Asbill & Brennan LLP and any attachments is confidential and intended only for the named recipient(s). If you have received this message in error, you are prohibited from copying, distributing or using the information. Please contact the sender immediately by return email and delete the original message. --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC444341A37C for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:56:05 -0500 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mTHJWdT3t/Sm6vTBOgwhM2GqCjuxVgP6zQ=="> Received: (from beerking1`at`juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GQYG3LSP; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:55:34 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: judge`at`synchro.com Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 Message-ID: <20020112.115537.544.3.beerking1`at`juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6,8-13 From: "Lyle C. Brown" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Paul Gatza writes: "AHA Administrator Kate Porter now is adding every BJCP-sanctioned competition to the Zymurgy and beertown calendars. ... AHA Project Coordinator Gary Glass has submitted a web change that will include a link to the BJCP site on the beertown calendar and sanctioned competition section of beertown." GREAT NEWS! Lyle C. Brown --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC444341A382 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:56:06 -0500 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mTHJWdT3t/SmLZVwYIMDI+UVHLtyutTENw=="> Received: (from beerking1`at`juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GQYG3LRB; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:55:34 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: judge`at`synchro.com Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:25:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 1/11/02 - 1/12/02 Message-ID: <20020112.115537.544.2.beerking1`at`juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-10,12-13,15-17 From: "Lyle C. Brown" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Randy Paul writes: > I'm curious why there is no category for West Coast Stouts? How > have these > entries been faring as specialty/experimental (quite different > competing > styles), as Porters (wrong roasted malt character), or as Stouts > (wrong > hops)? One might beg the question of what Randy considers the attributes of a "West Coast Stout" to be. Seems to me we have plenty of varieties of stouts in the subcategories. Only thing I can think of would be use of West Coast hops. Lyle C. Brown --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.50]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC445341A54C for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:11:25 -0500 Received: from 1cust44.tnt5.gainesville.fl.da.uu.net ([63.15.75.44] helo=markt) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Pa7C-0004I0-00 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:11:19 -0800 Message-ID: <002101c19bd7$3c327c20$2c4b0f3f`at`markt> From: "Mark Tumarkin" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: a couple more AHA comments Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:08:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This last Judgenet had some interesting posts concerning the AHA/BJCP issue. First the post from Paul Gatza in response to Bill's concerns about the Zymurgy for Beginners, and also Steve's promise on the same issue. I hope Bill, and others, have at least realized this was not an intentional act (though that doesn't excuse it either), and that the AHA staff and the Board of Advisers will certainly do all we can to make things more fair when it comes to reprint the Guide. Steve's post brings up a couple of issues too. Certainly, the Board of Advisors doesn't take orders from anyone in the AHA. But we don't give orders either.... our function as a Board is to give Advice. The current staff tends to take our advice fairly seriously, so it's a good relationship. Steve promises 'this will never happen again.' I'm sure this particular issue won't. Hopefully, this lesson will be applied to any similar issues that may come up in the future. There will probably be future fubars - we're all just human: the AHA staff, the AHA BOA, the BJCP officials and members, all of us. But from comments some of you have made here, it looks like we've at least been able to communicate that there has a change at the AHA and we're working to improve the brewing community as best we can. I'd also like to mention Paul's post concerning the AHA's policy towards advertising all homebrew competitions, whether registered/sponsored with the AHA or the BJCP. The AHA will be advertising these competitions both on our website and in Zymurgy. This is something we'd been talking about on the board before this recent AHA/BJCP flap started with the email concerning the upcoming BOA election and nominations. I'd wanted to say something about it earlier, but felt I couldn't till it was actually implemented. Another thing is that there will be time set aside at the Awards Banquet at the AHA National Conference for presenting pins to those BJCP judges who have achieved National or higher ranking, giving some recognition to the importance of the BJCP and the achievements and service of these particular judges. These may not be big issues, but they are indicative of the AHA's attitude toward the BJCP... someone earlier posted about wanting to see the AHA take some 'first steps' in improving the relationship. Hopefully, you'll see these actions in that light. I hope more of you will decide to work with the AHA towards common goals that effect our entire homebrewing community. This flap started with our call for nominations for the BOA. You can't make nominations, or be a Board member, unless you are first a member of the AHA. I don't think that's unreasonable. But people like Bill, Nathan, and others also serve a constructive role in criticizing the AHA when they feel it's appropriate. There have been fubars: past, present, and probably future. As I've said here before, I (and other board members) really want to hear your thoughts and concerns - hopefully focusing on constructive ideas & suggestions, not just bitching. We'll never make everyone happy, or get everyone to join or rejoin the AHA. As has been pointed out, the AHA is not the be all/end all in hombrewing; but it has been and is an important force in our hobby. And many of us are working to make it a positive part of the homebrewing community. We probably won't resolve everything to your satisfaction, but know that we'll at least look at your concerns and try to do what we can. We'd love to have you help us. Mark Tumarkin --Message_Part_SYNC445741A622-- --Next_Part_SYNC445741A622--