Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA15812 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA23295 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:02:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/30/01 - 8/31/01 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:01:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D" X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Judging Commercial Competitions (David Sherfey) Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 (JZ) Re: Digest for the period 8/26/01 - 8/27/01 (Susan Ruud) Call for Judges - Hoppy Halloween Challenge (Susan Ruud) Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 (Tyler Yarbrough) RE:Forgotten Beer Style in AABC/BJCP Guidelines? (Houseman, David L) Judging at the GABF (beerking1 at juno.com) --Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D" --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from host.warwick.net ([204.255.24.254]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11863B20DD for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:19:09 -0400 Received: from 1fvl601.warwick.net (viruswall1.warwick.net [204.255.24.159]) by host.warwick.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f7TMIwh67211 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829175029.00ae8d10 at mail.warwick.net> X-Sender: u1014856 at mail.warwick.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:21:02 -0400 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: David Sherfey Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Judging Commercial Competitions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Hi all- Any competition judging experience is a good thing for the hobby and should be encouraged and rewarded. It is an effort and commitment in time and it would be good to be rewarded with points for participating. I am not so certain that BJCP sanctioning to the extent that the BJCP Guidelines are *necessary* would work well or even be welcome at many competitions, though. And why is it really important? While the categories at some commercial competitions may seem lame to us, there is still plenty of experience to be gained in using our abilities as trained evaluators of aroma, appearance, flavor, mouthfeel, finish, and their associated defects. It's good to stretch out and do things differently once in awhile. David Sherfey Warwick, NY --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from radiusmaster.citlink.net ([207.173.224.111]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11873B2103 for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:03:11 -0400 Received: from Dell400 ([207.173.232.223]) by radiusmaster.citlink.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id net for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:02:38 -0500 Message-ID: <006701c130de$ea08c200$02c8a8c0 at citlink.net> From: "JZ" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest References: Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:04:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Add one more to the "yes" column. The issue was, should points be awarded for commercial judging. The issue of whether BJCP judges should be involved in these competitions is another matter. Many of us are already judging those competitions and affecting people's real-life work. We are asked to do it by the competition organizers because we possess the requsite skills. I'd also hazard an opinion, that there are a number of BJCP judges out there that are more skilled at beer evaluation than many professional brewers. JZ > Add one to the absolutely not column. While other judges have made some > fine points the fact remains, we are a volunteer organization addressing a > hobby. It doesn't matter that some of us brew professionally or write in > the industry, most are not professionals. This organization is in no way, > shape or form prepared to address what amounts to peoples real-life work. > Start affecting the product of people who need to make money and you had > better be prepared to devote alot more time and people. > > As the director of the National Cask Ale Competition in Chicago, one of our > primary qualifications is that you work in the industry - preferably as a > brewer. This is because the brewers, on the average, want it this way. I'm > not insinuating that you need to be a pro to be a competent judge nor am I > suggesting you automatically become one by going pro. As David mentioned, > though, any BJCP judge who judges in the GABF and WBC don't do so based on > their BJCP ranking. > > Homebrew judging is a hobby - lets keep it that way. My 0.02 . --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu ([134.129.111.146]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11903B2218 for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:11:29 -0400 Received: from Default (dyn178.lofts-117.ndsu.NoDak.edu [134.129.117.178]) by smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7U2BJf00582 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:11:19 -0500 Message-ID: <00c201c13109$dbdc5040$b2758186 at ndsu.nodak.edu> From: "Susan Ruud" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/26/01 - 8/27/01 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:11:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Call for Entries 4th Annual Hoppy Halloween Challenge - 2001 BJCP/AHA Sanctioned Homebrew Competition The Prairie Homebrewing Companions are hosting the Hoppy Halloween Challenge Homebrew Competition for its 4th year. We accept beers in all 26 BJCP/AHA styles including meads and cider. We've added a special category for a Halloween Theme beer with a worthy prize. The PHC invites you to send your beer to Fargo, to participate in the Hoppy Halloween, compete against some of the best beers in the country and perhaps win one (or a bunch!) of our wonderful prizes. 3 twelve ounces bottles per entry) of beer or use ours: Send your beer so it gets to our Registrar between Sept 22 and Oct 5 at this address: The PHC % Dave Trautmann 1914 10th St N Fargo, ND 58102 (701) 237-0756 Oh, we must ask you to include a little money to cover our costs. The first four beers you enter are $7.50/each and all entries after that are $5.00/each. For additional questions and all the details, visit: http://www.linkup.net/users/dtrautmann/phc2001.html If you're in Fargo, ND around Oct 27 be sure to join us for the Best-of-Show ceremonies, always a great time! Competition Coordinator, Karl Gunderson E-mail: kgunders at microsoft.com Home: 701-282-4966 --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu ([134.129.111.146]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11903B229E for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:20:25 -0400 Received: from Default (dyn178.lofts-117.ndsu.NoDak.edu [134.129.117.178]) by smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7U2KEf00686 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:20:14 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c1310b$1b281ee0$b2758186 at ndsu.nodak.edu> From: "Susan Ruud" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Call for Judges - Hoppy Halloween Challenge Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:20:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Call for Judges 4th Annual Hoppy Halloween Challenge BJCP/AHA Sanctioned Homebrew Competition The Hoppy Halloween has grown each year, last year we had 169 entries. With so many beers, including meads and ciders, we have plenty of room for judges. BJCP judges will find a variety of styles to taste and many points to be earned. New and novice judges have an excellent opportunity to learn about new styles and interact with more experienced judges. Entries are due starting on Sept 9 and ending on October 5, 2001. Judging will commence shortly after the ending date and continue through Oct 26, 2001, the day before the Best- of-Show event. Everyone is invited to attend the BOS event on Saturday October 27, 2001 at the Evergreen Conference Center, 302 27 St NW in Fargo, ND. Competition Coordinator, Karl Gunderson 1625 Ash Place West Fargo, ND 58078-3417 E-mail: kgunders at microsoft.com Home: 701-282-4966 Web Site: http://www.linkup.net/users/dtrautmann/phc2001.html Please send info if you are interested in judging to: Dick Nilles Judging Coordinator 101 31 Ave N Fargo, ND 58102 Or via e-mail at: rbnilles at earthlink.net You can also contact Dick with questions at by e-mail, postal mail or on his home phone at: 701-237-5192 --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from pltn13.pbi.net ([64.164.98.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC12033B32E7 for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:20:12 -0400 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GIV00F6WZX9JG at mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:20:00 -0700 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3B8E59A0.91B08B53 at pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message While I agree with Mr. Sparrow's good point in his letter about keeping home brew judging a hobby, I think he misses the point just a bit. I don't think we're suggesting getting the BJCP involved in dictating style guidelines to commercial brewers, or even influencing what commercial brewers are doing at all. The discussion, rather is whether BJCP ranked judges should accrue experience recognition by the BJCP for their efforts on behalf of commercial beer competitions. The BJCP has never held itself out as a resource for commercial brewers, even though commercial beer competitions recognize our judging competence to the point of inviting us to judge. All we're talking about, as I understand it, is recognizing this internally to the BJCP, as good experience for the judges involved. My opinion only, your mileage may vary, etc, etc.... cheers, Tyler Yarbrough --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com ([192.61.61.99]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC12053B35DC for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:53:40 -0400 Received: from us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com [192.61.146.102]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05081 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:52:06 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:53:13 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980E9F37 at USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE:Forgotten Beer Style in AABC/BJCP Guidelines? Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:52:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message When the BJCP style guidelines were revised, the one style that was deliberately left out was "Malt Liquor" which may be the closest to what Richard Pass is looking for as an Elephant clone. Should there be sufficient interest in adding Malt Liquor back to the style guidelines that should be considered. If a particular competition wants to add some style, such as Elephant clone, to their categories, they can certainly do that. The general catch-all for clones would be the Specialty category where the additional information given is "Elephant clone" or "Duval clone" where the beer would then be judged as how close do it come to that specific beer. The BJCP is about to undertake some revisions to the style guidelines, based in part on feedback received from this forum. Continue with the comments and let the BJCP know how important a style such as Malt Liquor is to your competitions. Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC12133B3899 for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:21:04 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mZVJrpI4YB9vDZ7lUWDE5A1r7HTL2VwiMg=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GD5SAZVU; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:20:26 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:18:25 -0400 Subject: Judging at the GABF Message-ID: <20010830.212356.-16594691.0.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7,19-21 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Steve Ashton states "In the beginning, the GABF used all BJCP judges (well mostly)," While not entirely untrue (there was a time when the GABF used primarily BJCP judges), the GABF is older than the BJCP. Before using "judges," the GABF used a "consumer preference poll." The general public attendees cast all the votes that were used to determine the best of show beer. There was no restriction on how many times one could vote, or on what sampling was required before casting the votes. Anyone else remember the year Jim Koch set out to intentionally prove that the GABF Best of Show was a pure popularity contest? For those that don't: He announced his intentions ahead of time, and showed up with a bevy of scantily clad, buxom women (how many women are in a bevy?) These women all were there to attract attention, and promote voting for Sam Adams as Best of Show. Wonder of wonders, he won by a landslide. This created much hate and discontent within the community. There were many arguments about this event. Still, the bottom line was that Jim saw a flaw in the process, and proved the error of it. Subsequent to his "display," the competition started using designated judges. At first, this "professional" judging was supplemented with a consumer preference poll, which was advertised as such. Lyle C. Brown beerking1 at juno.com --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D-- --Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D-- Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA15812 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA23295 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:02:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/30/01 - 8/31/01 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:01:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D" X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Judging Commercial Competitions (David Sherfey) Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 (JZ) Re: Digest for the period 8/26/01 - 8/27/01 (Susan Ruud) Call for Judges - Hoppy Halloween Challenge (Susan Ruud) Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 (Tyler Yarbrough) RE:Forgotten Beer Style in AABC/BJCP Guidelines? (Houseman, David L) Judging at the GABF (beerking1 at juno.com) --Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D" --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from host.warwick.net ([204.255.24.254]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11863B20DD for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:19:09 -0400 Received: from 1fvl601.warwick.net (viruswall1.warwick.net [204.255.24.159]) by host.warwick.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f7TMIwh67211 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829175029.00ae8d10 at mail.warwick.net> X-Sender: u1014856 at mail.warwick.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:21:02 -0400 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: David Sherfey Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Judging Commercial Competitions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Hi all- Any competition judging experience is a good thing for the hobby and should be encouraged and rewarded. It is an effort and commitment in time and it would be good to be rewarded with points for participating. I am not so certain that BJCP sanctioning to the extent that the BJCP Guidelines are *necessary* would work well or even be welcome at many competitions, though. And why is it really important? While the categories at some commercial competitions may seem lame to us, there is still plenty of experience to be gained in using our abilities as trained evaluators of aroma, appearance, flavor, mouthfeel, finish, and their associated defects. It's good to stretch out and do things differently once in awhile. David Sherfey Warwick, NY --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from radiusmaster.citlink.net ([207.173.224.111]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11873B2103 for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:03:11 -0400 Received: from Dell400 ([207.173.232.223]) by radiusmaster.citlink.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with SMTP id net for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:02:38 -0500 Message-ID: <006701c130de$ea08c200$02c8a8c0 at citlink.net> From: "JZ" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest References: Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:04:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Add one more to the "yes" column. The issue was, should points be awarded for commercial judging. The issue of whether BJCP judges should be involved in these competitions is another matter. Many of us are already judging those competitions and affecting people's real-life work. We are asked to do it by the competition organizers because we possess the requsite skills. I'd also hazard an opinion, that there are a number of BJCP judges out there that are more skilled at beer evaluation than many professional brewers. JZ > Add one to the absolutely not column. While other judges have made some > fine points the fact remains, we are a volunteer organization addressing a > hobby. It doesn't matter that some of us brew professionally or write in > the industry, most are not professionals. This organization is in no way, > shape or form prepared to address what amounts to peoples real-life work. > Start affecting the product of people who need to make money and you had > better be prepared to devote alot more time and people. > > As the director of the National Cask Ale Competition in Chicago, one of our > primary qualifications is that you work in the industry - preferably as a > brewer. This is because the brewers, on the average, want it this way. I'm > not insinuating that you need to be a pro to be a competent judge nor am I > suggesting you automatically become one by going pro. As David mentioned, > though, any BJCP judge who judges in the GABF and WBC don't do so based on > their BJCP ranking. > > Homebrew judging is a hobby - lets keep it that way. My 0.02 . --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu ([134.129.111.146]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11903B2218 for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:11:29 -0400 Received: from Default (dyn178.lofts-117.ndsu.NoDak.edu [134.129.117.178]) by smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7U2BJf00582 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:11:19 -0500 Message-ID: <00c201c13109$dbdc5040$b2758186 at ndsu.nodak.edu> From: "Susan Ruud" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/26/01 - 8/27/01 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:11:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Call for Entries 4th Annual Hoppy Halloween Challenge - 2001 BJCP/AHA Sanctioned Homebrew Competition The Prairie Homebrewing Companions are hosting the Hoppy Halloween Challenge Homebrew Competition for its 4th year. We accept beers in all 26 BJCP/AHA styles including meads and cider. We've added a special category for a Halloween Theme beer with a worthy prize. The PHC invites you to send your beer to Fargo, to participate in the Hoppy Halloween, compete against some of the best beers in the country and perhaps win one (or a bunch!) of our wonderful prizes. 3 twelve ounces bottles per entry) of beer or use ours: Send your beer so it gets to our Registrar between Sept 22 and Oct 5 at this address: The PHC % Dave Trautmann 1914 10th St N Fargo, ND 58102 (701) 237-0756 Oh, we must ask you to include a little money to cover our costs. The first four beers you enter are $7.50/each and all entries after that are $5.00/each. For additional questions and all the details, visit: http://www.linkup.net/users/dtrautmann/phc2001.html If you're in Fargo, ND around Oct 27 be sure to join us for the Best-of-Show ceremonies, always a great time! Competition Coordinator, Karl Gunderson E-mail: kgunders at microsoft.com Home: 701-282-4966 --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu ([134.129.111.146]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC11903B229E for judge at synchro.com; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:20:25 -0400 Received: from Default (dyn178.lofts-117.ndsu.NoDak.edu [134.129.117.178]) by smtp1.ndsu.nodak.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7U2KEf00686 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:20:14 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c1310b$1b281ee0$b2758186 at ndsu.nodak.edu> From: "Susan Ruud" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Call for Judges - Hoppy Halloween Challenge Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:20:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Call for Judges 4th Annual Hoppy Halloween Challenge BJCP/AHA Sanctioned Homebrew Competition The Hoppy Halloween has grown each year, last year we had 169 entries. With so many beers, including meads and ciders, we have plenty of room for judges. BJCP judges will find a variety of styles to taste and many points to be earned. New and novice judges have an excellent opportunity to learn about new styles and interact with more experienced judges. Entries are due starting on Sept 9 and ending on October 5, 2001. Judging will commence shortly after the ending date and continue through Oct 26, 2001, the day before the Best- of-Show event. Everyone is invited to attend the BOS event on Saturday October 27, 2001 at the Evergreen Conference Center, 302 27 St NW in Fargo, ND. Competition Coordinator, Karl Gunderson 1625 Ash Place West Fargo, ND 58078-3417 E-mail: kgunders at microsoft.com Home: 701-282-4966 Web Site: http://www.linkup.net/users/dtrautmann/phc2001.html Please send info if you are interested in judging to: Dick Nilles Judging Coordinator 101 31 Ave N Fargo, ND 58102 Or via e-mail at: rbnilles at earthlink.net You can also contact Dick with questions at by e-mail, postal mail or on his home phone at: 701-237-5192 --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from pltn13.pbi.net ([64.164.98.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC12033B32E7 for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:20:12 -0400 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GIV00F6WZX9JG at mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:20:00 -0700 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/28/01 - 8/29/01 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3B8E59A0.91B08B53 at pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message While I agree with Mr. Sparrow's good point in his letter about keeping home brew judging a hobby, I think he misses the point just a bit. I don't think we're suggesting getting the BJCP involved in dictating style guidelines to commercial brewers, or even influencing what commercial brewers are doing at all. The discussion, rather is whether BJCP ranked judges should accrue experience recognition by the BJCP for their efforts on behalf of commercial beer competitions. The BJCP has never held itself out as a resource for commercial brewers, even though commercial beer competitions recognize our judging competence to the point of inviting us to judge. All we're talking about, as I understand it, is recognizing this internally to the BJCP, as good experience for the judges involved. My opinion only, your mileage may vary, etc, etc.... cheers, Tyler Yarbrough --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com ([192.61.61.99]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC12053B35DC for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:53:40 -0400 Received: from us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com [192.61.146.102]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05081 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:52:06 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:53:13 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980E9F37 at USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE:Forgotten Beer Style in AABC/BJCP Guidelines? Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:52:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message When the BJCP style guidelines were revised, the one style that was deliberately left out was "Malt Liquor" which may be the closest to what Richard Pass is looking for as an Elephant clone. Should there be sufficient interest in adding Malt Liquor back to the style guidelines that should be considered. If a particular competition wants to add some style, such as Elephant clone, to their categories, they can certainly do that. The general catch-all for clones would be the Specialty category where the additional information given is "Elephant clone" or "Duval clone" where the beer would then be judged as how close do it come to that specific beer. The BJCP is about to undertake some revisions to the style guidelines, based in part on feedback received from this forum. Continue with the comments and let the BJCP know how important a style such as Malt Liquor is to your competitions. Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC12133B3899 for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:21:04 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mZVJrpI4YB9vDZ7lUWDE5A1r7HTL2VwiMg=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GD5SAZVU; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:20:26 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:18:25 -0400 Subject: Judging at the GABF Message-ID: <20010830.212356.-16594691.0.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7,19-21 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Steve Ashton states "In the beginning, the GABF used all BJCP judges (well mostly)," While not entirely untrue (there was a time when the GABF used primarily BJCP judges), the GABF is older than the BJCP. Before using "judges," the GABF used a "consumer preference poll." The general public attendees cast all the votes that were used to determine the best of show beer. There was no restriction on how many times one could vote, or on what sampling was required before casting the votes. Anyone else remember the year Jim Koch set out to intentionally prove that the GABF Best of Show was a pure popularity contest? For those that don't: He announced his intentions ahead of time, and showed up with a bevy of scantily clad, buxom women (how many women are in a bevy?) These women all were there to attract attention, and promote voting for Sam Adams as Best of Show. Wonder of wonders, he won by a landslide. This created much hate and discontent within the community. There were many arguments about this event. Still, the bottom line was that Jim saw a flaw in the process, and proved the error of it. Subsequent to his "display," the competition started using designated judges. At first, this "professional" judging was supplemented with a consumer preference poll, which was advertised as such. Lyle C. Brown beerking1 at juno.com --Message_Part_SYNC12173B391D-- --Next_Part_SYNC12173B391D--