Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA24482 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA22824 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/25/01 - 8/26/01 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:00:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5" X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Commercial Judging & memorizing (Randy Paul) exam schedule (Dave Sapsis) --Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5" --Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from shell.cais.net ([205.252.14.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10673AC863 for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:06:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (randy at localhost) by shell.cais.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7ON5rR78242 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:05:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from randy at computer.org) X-Authentication-Warning: shell.cais.net: randy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:05:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Paul Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Sender: randy at shell.cais.net To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Commercial Judging & memorizing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message BJCP will be a stronger organization if we find a way to expand to include commercial judging. It would not be good to bend the current system to fit, since there appears to be different goals involved (does Rolling Rock really want us to tell them how to eliminate DMS in their beer?). To do this we need a policy and guidelines for sanctioned commercial judging, a team needs to investigate the range of issues and develop those guidelines and policies, there should be a separate experience point account and a separate certification (one could be a National homebrew judge with or without commercial certification). This need not come out the gate with the same level of sophistication as the current rules, it will need to evolve over time as the current system did. The question is whether we want to front the effort and cost to make this possible? I'll vote to provide the guidelines in exams but no open book. There are many competitions using outdated guidelines or tailored guidelines so judges need to be adaptable to the numbers du jour more than be fixated on a description they memorized. It wouldn't be a terrible idea to alter the guidelines and take points for an evaluation scoresheet that overlooked it. For example, raise the German Wheat OG and use a sample like Schneider Edel-Weisse. A great beer, but using the current guideline it should be too strong for the style. If the judge says "too strong" he scores lower because he missed the change. What do you think? -- Randy --Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.122]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10853AD3FB for judge at synchro.com; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:08:01 -0400 Received: from dsapsislp2 (2Cust52.tnt2.sacramento2.ca.da.uu.net [63.25.234.52]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03697 for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001901c12d87$b7487ae0$34ea193f at dsapsislp2> From: "Dave Sapsis" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: exam schedule Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:02:22 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Good folks, Time for the periodic post alerting any potential examinees of the current BJCP exam schedule. Follks in the midwest should also note that there will likely be an exam at the end of the year in the Omaha area. As always, the current schedule can be found at http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/examsch.html 9/8 San Diego, CA Peter Zien Day Phone: (858) 459-4540 Evening Phone: (858) 546-7824 pz.jdzinc at worldnet.att.net 9/14 Dayton, OH Gordon Strong Day Phone: (937) 431-1366 Evening Phone: (same) strongg at earthlink.net 9/22 Sevierville, TN Tom Karnowski Day Phone: (865) 574-5732 Evening Phone: (865) 694-4389 karnowsk at esper.com 10/18 Nashville, TN Fred Scheer Day Phone: (615) 385-0050 Evening Phone: (615) 833-0455 fhopheads at msn.com 10/20 Cleveland, OH Charles Bernard Day Phone: (216) 271-5300 x607 Evening Phone: (330) 725-7072 bernardch at mindspring.com 10/23 Las Vegas, NV Steve MacMillan Day Phone: (702) 768-0815 Evening Phone: (702) 435-5816 11/3 Denver, CO Jim Edgins Day Phone: 720-482-4702 Evening Phone: 303-470-0106 jimedgins at aol.com 11/18 Pittsburgh, PA Rich Schutte Day Phone: (none) Evening Phone: (none) rwschutte at hotmail.com cheers, --David Sapsis BJCP Exam Co-Director --Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5-- --Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5-- Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA24482 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA22824 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/25/01 - 8/26/01 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:00:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5" X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Commercial Judging & memorizing (Randy Paul) exam schedule (Dave Sapsis) --Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5" --Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from shell.cais.net ([205.252.14.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10673AC863 for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:06:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (randy at localhost) by shell.cais.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7ON5rR78242 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:05:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from randy at computer.org) X-Authentication-Warning: shell.cais.net: randy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:05:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Paul Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Sender: randy at shell.cais.net To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Commercial Judging & memorizing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message BJCP will be a stronger organization if we find a way to expand to include commercial judging. It would not be good to bend the current system to fit, since there appears to be different goals involved (does Rolling Rock really want us to tell them how to eliminate DMS in their beer?). To do this we need a policy and guidelines for sanctioned commercial judging, a team needs to investigate the range of issues and develop those guidelines and policies, there should be a separate experience point account and a separate certification (one could be a National homebrew judge with or without commercial certification). This need not come out the gate with the same level of sophistication as the current rules, it will need to evolve over time as the current system did. The question is whether we want to front the effort and cost to make this possible? I'll vote to provide the guidelines in exams but no open book. There are many competitions using outdated guidelines or tailored guidelines so judges need to be adaptable to the numbers du jour more than be fixated on a description they memorized. It wouldn't be a terrible idea to alter the guidelines and take points for an evaluation scoresheet that overlooked it. For example, raise the German Wheat OG and use a sample like Schneider Edel-Weisse. A great beer, but using the current guideline it should be too strong for the style. If the judge says "too strong" he scores lower because he missed the change. What do you think? -- Randy --Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.122]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10853AD3FB for judge at synchro.com; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:08:01 -0400 Received: from dsapsislp2 (2Cust52.tnt2.sacramento2.ca.da.uu.net [63.25.234.52]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03697 for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001901c12d87$b7487ae0$34ea193f at dsapsislp2> From: "Dave Sapsis" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: exam schedule Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:02:22 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Good folks, Time for the periodic post alerting any potential examinees of the current BJCP exam schedule. Follks in the midwest should also note that there will likely be an exam at the end of the year in the Omaha area. As always, the current schedule can be found at http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/examsch.html 9/8 San Diego, CA Peter Zien Day Phone: (858) 459-4540 Evening Phone: (858) 546-7824 pz.jdzinc at worldnet.att.net 9/14 Dayton, OH Gordon Strong Day Phone: (937) 431-1366 Evening Phone: (same) strongg at earthlink.net 9/22 Sevierville, TN Tom Karnowski Day Phone: (865) 574-5732 Evening Phone: (865) 694-4389 karnowsk at esper.com 10/18 Nashville, TN Fred Scheer Day Phone: (615) 385-0050 Evening Phone: (615) 833-0455 fhopheads at msn.com 10/20 Cleveland, OH Charles Bernard Day Phone: (216) 271-5300 x607 Evening Phone: (330) 725-7072 bernardch at mindspring.com 10/23 Las Vegas, NV Steve MacMillan Day Phone: (702) 768-0815 Evening Phone: (702) 435-5816 11/3 Denver, CO Jim Edgins Day Phone: 720-482-4702 Evening Phone: 303-470-0106 jimedgins at aol.com 11/18 Pittsburgh, PA Rich Schutte Day Phone: (none) Evening Phone: (none) rwschutte at hotmail.com cheers, --David Sapsis BJCP Exam Co-Director --Message_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5-- --Next_Part_SYNC10973AD5D5--