Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.21]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA02994 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA06650 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:02:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/23/01 - 8/24/01 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:00:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0" X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Memorizing Style Guidelines (Eric R. Theiner) RE: Judging Commercial Beer Competitions (Houseman, David L) Re: Digest for the period 8/22/01 - 8/23/01 (JayAnkeney at aol.com) commercial judging (Bryan L. Gros) Re: Digest for the period 8/20/01 - 8/21/01 (beerking1 at juno.com) --Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0" --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mail.skantech.com ([208.12.236.243]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10333AAD7E for Judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:05:18 -0400 Received: from c7p5q9.skantech.com [208.12.236.63] by mail.skantech.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AF73A9A0194; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:04:51 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20010823085653.00a35390 at skantech.net> X-Sender: logic at skantech.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:08:46 -0400 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Eric R. Theiner" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Memorizing Style Guidelines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Dave Sapsis has succeeded where few ever have-- he's made me re-think my opinion. (That's a joke-- I don't *think* I'm that closed minded.) Allow me to tell you a story: When I prepared for the BJCP exam, we didn't have style guidelines that were categorized as well as we do now. The old AHA/BJCP guidelines had descriptive paragraphs that sometimes rambled on about nuances and impressions with only limited informations on the concrete things I was interested in (the new guidelines have done a great job on clarifying a lot of styles). So my solution was to develop a spreadsheet with columns for OG, FG, Aroma, Taste, Mouthfeel, Color, etc. I then broke the guidelines down into these categories so that I could more easily see the differences at a glance between, say, a Northern English Brown Ale and a Southern. And it was much easier to memorize this spreadsheet than the guidelines as they existed at the time. (Although it made my life hell after the guidelines were revised-- everything was out of order!!) That comparing and contrasting is REALLY the great gain I made through the exercise. I didn't even review the guidelines the second time I took the exam, but I scored higher on the essay section questions that I answered. (Budget your time carefully!! Missing two questions altogether wrecked my chances at National this last time around.) In light of Dave's comments, I have to admit that my understanding of the styles, nuances and differences was based on that initial exercise in categorization and memorization. And that foundation has proved to be solid, indeed. So maybe it doesn't make sense from a practical standpoint to memorize the traits of each style, but from a learning standpoint, there may be a bit of merit, indeed. Rick Theiner --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com ([192.61.61.99]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10333AAD8B for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:18:23 -0400 Received: from us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com [192.61.145.102]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09852 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:16:39 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:17:37 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF98146621 at USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Judging Commercial Beer Competitions Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:17:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Several people responded to my questions. Thanks for the input. Hopefully we'll hear from more. A couple points: First, I'm seeking general direction/feeling about whether the BJCP should play a role in commercial beer competitions by awarding points? The second, if so, then what conditions should apply? So far it seems that a number of the competitions are using the BJCP style guidelines and are using BJCP judges. The question of sanctioning came up and that's a good point. Would the commercial competitions be willing to spend the $35 and go to the trouble of sanctioning (registering) with the BJCP in order to be able to award the points to the BJCP judges? In requesting and receiving registration with the BJCP, the competition organizers agree to abide by the principles of the BJCP so that would cover all the rules of the BJCP. However the beer would be commercially produced beer, not homebrew. Is that an issue in itself? David Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10363AB33D for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:03:57 -0400 Received: from JayAnkeney at aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id u.82.f21c7c1 (16486) for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:03:27 -0400 (EDT) From: JayAnkeney at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Message-ID: <82.f21c7c1.28b6834e at aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:03:26 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/22/01 - 8/23/01 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 28 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message In a message dated 8/22/01 10:08:11 PM, judge at synchro.com writes: << Should the BJCP award judge points for events that aren't sanctioned? >> This is a no-brainer. Of course not!! Commercial beers often deviate from any recognized style guidelines despite=20 the arbitrary names their marketers choose to put on the labels. Miller Lite= =20 claims to be a classic Pilsner. Do you want to judge it as such? How many=20 "Porters" can you name that are brewed with lager yeast? And there are very=20 few domestically brewed commercial K=F6lsch offerings, even from many=20 micro-breweries, that deserve that appellation. Let's maintain the sanctity of our dedication to amateur brewing. We should=20 afford those who want to advance through the ranks of the BJCP the=20 opportunity of gaining judging points by earning the privilege through=20 testing their pallets under consistent evaluation conditions. And, equally=20 important, by supporting BJCP sanctioned competitions. The very suggestion that the idea of awarding points to commercial competit ions should be considered is a disturbing deviation from the whole purpose o= f=20 the BJCP. And the idea that the impetus against expanding the awarding of=20 points is "the fact the sanctioned competitions pay a fee to the BJCP" is=20 more than cynical. It betrays an understanding of the true value of the=20 mission of the dedicated people behind this unique organization. Jay Ankeney BTW, how do you enhance the Digest reading experience by including a line=20 such as ""Life is nothing if not an ongoing suckfest of trade-offs." Is that= =20 kind of vacuous negativity supposed to be profound? --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.226]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10433AB7DB for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:45:25 -0400 Received: from b-4l8wfidpt9wow.bigfoot.com (user-vcauv1v.dsl.mindspring.com [216.175.124.63]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07995 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010823164215.00ad6050 at pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: bryangros at pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:44:04 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: commercial judging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Dave Houseman makes some good points arguing that BJCP judges should get experience points for judging in commercial competitions. I agree. The commercial competitions out here tend to focus on a style: barleywine festival, or IPA festival. Although there is the State Fair with the whole gamut of styles. While feedback to the brewers is not an aspect of most of these competitions, it can only enhance one's judging experience to be exposed to so many interpretations of a style. And while specific style guidelines are generally not given, I (as a judge) always review the BJCP guidelines before the event and keep them in mind. I can't imagine how you wouldn't learn something by judging at the GABF, although I haven't had the opportunity yet. We may want to set a limit as to how many commercial judging experience points should be awarded, but I think it is a good idea. - Bryan Bryan Gros Oakland, CA --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10443AB7E7 for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:05:54 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mT3lizr/6yVaeP2L8w8JE8WWjbb36lgLRA=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GDKL6UXM; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:04:27 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: judge at synchro.com Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:08:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/20/01 - 8/21/01 Message-ID: <20010824.080815.-16340537.2.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,10-11,20-21,23-25 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Dave Houseman raises an interesting, and I think overdue, question regarding points for commercial judgings. I cannot begin to count the number of times I have been introduced (by a well meaning friend) as a "Beer Judge," which is immediately followed by the standard questions about judging commercial beer. (Where do you judge? Have you ever judged brand X? What is your "professional" opinion of Brand Y? etc. Most of us have heard them.) Given the extremely few (2) times I have "officially" judged commercial beers (any good judge will practice with most, if not every beer they drink?), I am somewhat hard pressed to answer without disappointing the questioner. If the BJCP were to even go to the extent of "sanctioning" commercial competitions, our judging community would benefit from an expansion of overall beer knowledge and expertise, and an improved positive image of the organization. Certainly there are some competitions where the BJCP would not offer much, but there are also those competitions that could benefit from our involvement. In short, this could be a beneficial partnership, for both communities. Could even extend to the point of fostering increased "judge" involvement, allowing more to share in and benefit from the pluses of which Dave speaks. I'm all for it, and I think the BJCP would benefit more than the commercial brewing community. Lyle C. Brown --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0-- --Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0-- Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.21]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA02994 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA06650 for ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:02:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/23/01 - 8/24/01 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:00:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0" X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Memorizing Style Guidelines (Eric R. Theiner) RE: Judging Commercial Beer Competitions (Houseman, David L) Re: Digest for the period 8/22/01 - 8/23/01 (JayAnkeney at aol.com) commercial judging (Bryan L. Gros) Re: Digest for the period 8/20/01 - 8/21/01 (beerking1 at juno.com) --Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0" --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mail.skantech.com ([208.12.236.243]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10333AAD7E for Judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:05:18 -0400 Received: from c7p5q9.skantech.com [208.12.236.63] by mail.skantech.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AF73A9A0194; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:04:51 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20010823085653.00a35390 at skantech.net> X-Sender: logic at skantech.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:08:46 -0400 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Eric R. Theiner" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Memorizing Style Guidelines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Dave Sapsis has succeeded where few ever have-- he's made me re-think my opinion. (That's a joke-- I don't *think* I'm that closed minded.) Allow me to tell you a story: When I prepared for the BJCP exam, we didn't have style guidelines that were categorized as well as we do now. The old AHA/BJCP guidelines had descriptive paragraphs that sometimes rambled on about nuances and impressions with only limited informations on the concrete things I was interested in (the new guidelines have done a great job on clarifying a lot of styles). So my solution was to develop a spreadsheet with columns for OG, FG, Aroma, Taste, Mouthfeel, Color, etc. I then broke the guidelines down into these categories so that I could more easily see the differences at a glance between, say, a Northern English Brown Ale and a Southern. And it was much easier to memorize this spreadsheet than the guidelines as they existed at the time. (Although it made my life hell after the guidelines were revised-- everything was out of order!!) That comparing and contrasting is REALLY the great gain I made through the exercise. I didn't even review the guidelines the second time I took the exam, but I scored higher on the essay section questions that I answered. (Budget your time carefully!! Missing two questions altogether wrecked my chances at National this last time around.) In light of Dave's comments, I have to admit that my understanding of the styles, nuances and differences was based on that initial exercise in categorization and memorization. And that foundation has proved to be solid, indeed. So maybe it doesn't make sense from a practical standpoint to memorize the traits of each style, but from a learning standpoint, there may be a bit of merit, indeed. Rick Theiner --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com ([192.61.61.99]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10333AAD8B for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:18:23 -0400 Received: from us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com [192.61.145.102]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09852 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:16:39 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:17:37 -0500 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF98146621 at USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: Judging Commercial Beer Competitions Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:17:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Several people responded to my questions. Thanks for the input. Hopefully we'll hear from more. A couple points: First, I'm seeking general direction/feeling about whether the BJCP should play a role in commercial beer competitions by awarding points? The second, if so, then what conditions should apply? So far it seems that a number of the competitions are using the BJCP style guidelines and are using BJCP judges. The question of sanctioning came up and that's a good point. Would the commercial competitions be willing to spend the $35 and go to the trouble of sanctioning (registering) with the BJCP in order to be able to award the points to the BJCP judges? In requesting and receiving registration with the BJCP, the competition organizers agree to abide by the principles of the BJCP so that would cover all the rules of the BJCP. However the beer would be commercially produced beer, not homebrew. Is that an issue in itself? David Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10363AB33D for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:03:57 -0400 Received: from JayAnkeney at aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id u.82.f21c7c1 (16486) for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:03:27 -0400 (EDT) From: JayAnkeney at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Message-ID: <82.f21c7c1.28b6834e at aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:03:26 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/22/01 - 8/23/01 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 28 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message In a message dated 8/22/01 10:08:11 PM, judge at synchro.com writes: << Should the BJCP award judge points for events that aren't sanctioned? >> This is a no-brainer. Of course not!! Commercial beers often deviate from any recognized style guidelines despite=20 the arbitrary names their marketers choose to put on the labels. Miller Lite= =20 claims to be a classic Pilsner. Do you want to judge it as such? How many=20 "Porters" can you name that are brewed with lager yeast? And there are very=20 few domestically brewed commercial K=F6lsch offerings, even from many=20 micro-breweries, that deserve that appellation. Let's maintain the sanctity of our dedication to amateur brewing. We should=20 afford those who want to advance through the ranks of the BJCP the=20 opportunity of gaining judging points by earning the privilege through=20 testing their pallets under consistent evaluation conditions. And, equally=20 important, by supporting BJCP sanctioned competitions. The very suggestion that the idea of awarding points to commercial competit ions should be considered is a disturbing deviation from the whole purpose o= f=20 the BJCP. And the idea that the impetus against expanding the awarding of=20 points is "the fact the sanctioned competitions pay a fee to the BJCP" is=20 more than cynical. It betrays an understanding of the true value of the=20 mission of the dedicated people behind this unique organization. Jay Ankeney BTW, how do you enhance the Digest reading experience by including a line=20 such as ""Life is nothing if not an ongoing suckfest of trade-offs." Is that= =20 kind of vacuous negativity supposed to be profound? --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.226]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10433AB7DB for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:45:25 -0400 Received: from b-4l8wfidpt9wow.bigfoot.com (user-vcauv1v.dsl.mindspring.com [216.175.124.63]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07995 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010823164215.00ad6050 at pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: bryangros at pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:44:04 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: commercial judging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Dave Houseman makes some good points arguing that BJCP judges should get experience points for judging in commercial competitions. I agree. The commercial competitions out here tend to focus on a style: barleywine festival, or IPA festival. Although there is the State Fair with the whole gamut of styles. While feedback to the brewers is not an aspect of most of these competitions, it can only enhance one's judging experience to be exposed to so many interpretations of a style. And while specific style guidelines are generally not given, I (as a judge) always review the BJCP guidelines before the event and keep them in mind. I can't imagine how you wouldn't learn something by judging at the GABF, although I haven't had the opportunity yet. We may want to set a limit as to how many commercial judging experience points should be awarded, but I think it is a good idea. - Bryan Bryan Gros Oakland, CA --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC10443AB7E7 for judge at synchro.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:05:54 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mT3lizr/6yVaeP2L8w8JE8WWjbb36lgLRA=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GDKL6UXM; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:04:27 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: judge at synchro.com Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:08:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/20/01 - 8/21/01 Message-ID: <20010824.080815.-16340537.2.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,10-11,20-21,23-25 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Dave Houseman raises an interesting, and I think overdue, question regarding points for commercial judgings. I cannot begin to count the number of times I have been introduced (by a well meaning friend) as a "Beer Judge," which is immediately followed by the standard questions about judging commercial beer. (Where do you judge? Have you ever judged brand X? What is your "professional" opinion of Brand Y? etc. Most of us have heard them.) Given the extremely few (2) times I have "officially" judged commercial beers (any good judge will practice with most, if not every beer they drink?), I am somewhat hard pressed to answer without disappointing the questioner. If the BJCP were to even go to the extent of "sanctioning" commercial competitions, our judging community would benefit from an expansion of overall beer knowledge and expertise, and an improved positive image of the organization. Certainly there are some competitions where the BJCP would not offer much, but there are also those competitions that could benefit from our involvement. In short, this could be a beneficial partnership, for both communities. Could even extend to the point of fostering increased "judge" involvement, allowing more to share in and benefit from the pluses of which Dave speaks. I'm all for it, and I think the BJCP would benefit more than the commercial brewing community. Lyle C. Brown --Message_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0-- --Next_Part_SYNC10493AB8D0--