Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.21]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA28437 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 01:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA01617 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 01:05:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 4/24/01 - 4/25/01 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 01:03:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1" X-Hops: 1 Status: --Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- multiple entries (Bryan L. Gros) E-maily Post on posting etiquette ;-) (Robert Paolino) Qualifying for national competition (Robert Paolino) Re: Same beer being judged twice (JazzboBob at aol.com) --Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1" --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.148]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81212E67E2 for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:22:14 -0400 Received: from b-4l8wfidpt9wow.bigfoot.com (user-vcauum3.dsl.mindspring.com [216.175.122.195]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00126 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010423221543.00ac5620 at pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: bryangros at pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:16:35 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: multiple entries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I think the idea of multiple entries in the same subcategory is designed to prevent the shotgun approach--brewing 3 or 4 pale ales (for example) and hoping one is good enough to medal. I agree with the idea that the brewer should pick the beer that is best and enter it. That is part of why (almost) all competitions send out their style guidelines with the competition information. Incidentally, it also prevents someone from entering the SAME beer 3 times to get all three places. I should hope that wouldn't happen... Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Draught Board Homebrew Club http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/ --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from out5.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net ([169.207.2.77]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81292E69B4 for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:42:45 -0400 Received: from pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.3.115]) by out5.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3ODgpZ53596 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:42:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from earth (rpaolino at earth.execpc.com [169.207.16.1]) by pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3ODgoH37720 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:42:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:42:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Paolino Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: E-maily Post on posting etiquette ;-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I'd like to appeal to list members to give some thought to how much of a post is quoted in a reply. To add your paragraph or two for the discussion while leaving the entire preceding message makes the digest unnecessarily long, particularly when several people are responding to the same message and do the same over-quoting. Do we really need to read the same message a half-dozen times in the same digest? Please quote only the points to which you are responding or that are necessary to place the response in context. And, now... back to beer. -- Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison I can taste my beer; can you? Support your local craft brewers! --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from out4.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net ([169.207.1.77]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81292E6A2A for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:58:12 -0400 Received: from pop0.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (pop0.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.1.115]) by out4.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3ODwHg15060 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:58:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from earth (rpaolino at earth.execpc.com [169.207.16.1]) by pop0.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3ODwI814503 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:58:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:58:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Paolino Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Qualifying for national competition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message > From: beerking1 at juno.com Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:12:03 -0400 > > From: Bill Wible Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:37:32 -0400 Bill wrote: > > The NHC is a special deal. Isn't the NHC one of those > > contests you have to be "pre-qualified" for, and gain > > entry into only by winning another competition? It's Beerking wrote: > Actually, Bill, the NHC is not a "special deal." There is no requirement > to pre-qualify for the NHC, and hasn't been as long as I have been aware > of it (since 1984). The NHC is open to anyone, world-wide, and there is > no requirement that you have won anything prior to entry. OTOH, the > second round is made up of entries that have "qualified" in the first It's possible that Bill was thinking about the national competition the HWBTA used to sponsor. (I judged in the last one they did, and the big laugh of the day was when a Chicago judge who shall not be named here exclaimed, "Smells like Band-Aid" :-) A couple judges thought they'd try out the then relatively new "breathe-right" strips to enhance their sensory capabilities.) If I recall correctly, the way you got into that one was that winners in HWBTA-registered regional and local competitions received entries to the national. But the AHA-NHC is open to all who tear the form out of _Zymurgy_ and send in checks and beers. -- Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison I can taste my beer; can you? Support your local craft brewers! --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.165]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81322E6F1A for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:58 -0400 Received: from JazzboBob at aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.9.) id u.6c.9e89321 (15888) for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web31.aolmail.aol.com (web31.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.7]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v78.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:40 EDT From: JazzboBob at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Same beer being judged twice To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <6c.9e89321.28170959 at aol.com> X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Regarding Different Beers in the same Category? Several years ago I did an experiment during the AHA Nationals. I've never confessed to doing the test to a wide audience before now, but feel that my results may have interest in the context of the current discussion. I happen to live in NJ, but work in PA. This experiment goes back to when the AHA first began to split the preliminary round sites into different regions. Somehow, the two states I spend time in were in different AHA entry locations. SO, along with a friend that is a PA resident, we decided to do something to check on the consistency and fairness of shipping beers to different locations. We gave each other duplicate beers, and entered and shipped the same beer to both prelim site locations under each others name. We would have the same beer judged twice, but with a different set of judges. My box went north and his went west. The results were very interesting because the scoring and comments were very similar for both of our beers. In both locations, our individual beer scores were within 3 points with mine getting something in the upper 30's and his being a low 30's. Mine happened to go on to the second round in both locations. His didn't make the next round. I didn't submit my beer from the PA entry site so that I wouldn't have a duplicate beer in the final round since I felt that would be unfair. Neither of us was looking to improve our chances of getting an award. We wanted to test the level of consistency of judges and average entries in separate locations. We found that the average scores in both locations was very consistent and endorsed the idea that good beer judging would get similar results from different judging panels & locations. Bob Grossman --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1-- --Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1-- Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.21]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA28437 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 01:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA01617 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 01:05:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 4/24/01 - 4/25/01 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 01:03:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1" X-Hops: 1 Status: --Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- multiple entries (Bryan L. Gros) E-maily Post on posting etiquette ;-) (Robert Paolino) Qualifying for national competition (Robert Paolino) Re: Same beer being judged twice (JazzboBob at aol.com) --Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1" --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.148]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81212E67E2 for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:22:14 -0400 Received: from b-4l8wfidpt9wow.bigfoot.com (user-vcauum3.dsl.mindspring.com [216.175.122.195]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00126 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010423221543.00ac5620 at pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: bryangros at pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:16:35 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: multiple entries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I think the idea of multiple entries in the same subcategory is designed to prevent the shotgun approach--brewing 3 or 4 pale ales (for example) and hoping one is good enough to medal. I agree with the idea that the brewer should pick the beer that is best and enter it. That is part of why (almost) all competitions send out their style guidelines with the competition information. Incidentally, it also prevents someone from entering the SAME beer 3 times to get all three places. I should hope that wouldn't happen... Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Draught Board Homebrew Club http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/ --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from out5.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net ([169.207.2.77]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81292E69B4 for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:42:45 -0400 Received: from pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.3.115]) by out5.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3ODgpZ53596 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:42:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from earth (rpaolino at earth.execpc.com [169.207.16.1]) by pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3ODgoH37720 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:42:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:42:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Paolino Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: E-maily Post on posting etiquette ;-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I'd like to appeal to list members to give some thought to how much of a post is quoted in a reply. To add your paragraph or two for the discussion while leaving the entire preceding message makes the digest unnecessarily long, particularly when several people are responding to the same message and do the same over-quoting. Do we really need to read the same message a half-dozen times in the same digest? Please quote only the points to which you are responding or that are necessary to place the response in context. And, now... back to beer. -- Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison I can taste my beer; can you? Support your local craft brewers! --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from out4.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net ([169.207.1.77]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81292E6A2A for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:58:12 -0400 Received: from pop0.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (pop0.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.1.115]) by out4.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3ODwHg15060 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:58:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from earth (rpaolino at earth.execpc.com [169.207.16.1]) by pop0.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3ODwI814503 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:58:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:58:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Paolino Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Qualifying for national competition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message > From: beerking1 at juno.com Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:12:03 -0400 > > From: Bill Wible Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:37:32 -0400 Bill wrote: > > The NHC is a special deal. Isn't the NHC one of those > > contests you have to be "pre-qualified" for, and gain > > entry into only by winning another competition? It's Beerking wrote: > Actually, Bill, the NHC is not a "special deal." There is no requirement > to pre-qualify for the NHC, and hasn't been as long as I have been aware > of it (since 1984). The NHC is open to anyone, world-wide, and there is > no requirement that you have won anything prior to entry. OTOH, the > second round is made up of entries that have "qualified" in the first It's possible that Bill was thinking about the national competition the HWBTA used to sponsor. (I judged in the last one they did, and the big laugh of the day was when a Chicago judge who shall not be named here exclaimed, "Smells like Band-Aid" :-) A couple judges thought they'd try out the then relatively new "breathe-right" strips to enhance their sensory capabilities.) If I recall correctly, the way you got into that one was that winners in HWBTA-registered regional and local competitions received entries to the national. But the AHA-NHC is open to all who tear the form out of _Zymurgy_ and send in checks and beers. -- Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison I can taste my beer; can you? Support your local craft brewers! --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.165]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.5.1167) id SYNC81322E6F1A for judge at synchro.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:58 -0400 Received: from JazzboBob at aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.9.) id u.6c.9e89321 (15888) for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web31.aolmail.aol.com (web31.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.7]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v78.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:52:40 EDT From: JazzboBob at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Same beer being judged twice To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <6c.9e89321.28170959 at aol.com> X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Regarding Different Beers in the same Category? Several years ago I did an experiment during the AHA Nationals. I've never confessed to doing the test to a wide audience before now, but feel that my results may have interest in the context of the current discussion. I happen to live in NJ, but work in PA. This experiment goes back to when the AHA first began to split the preliminary round sites into different regions. Somehow, the two states I spend time in were in different AHA entry locations. SO, along with a friend that is a PA resident, we decided to do something to check on the consistency and fairness of shipping beers to different locations. We gave each other duplicate beers, and entered and shipped the same beer to both prelim site locations under each others name. We would have the same beer judged twice, but with a different set of judges. My box went north and his went west. The results were very interesting because the scoring and comments were very similar for both of our beers. In both locations, our individual beer scores were within 3 points with mine getting something in the upper 30's and his being a low 30's. Mine happened to go on to the second round in both locations. His didn't make the next round. I didn't submit my beer from the PA entry site so that I wouldn't have a duplicate beer in the final round since I felt that would be unfair. Neither of us was looking to improve our chances of getting an award. We wanted to test the level of consistency of judges and average entries in separate locations. We found that the average scores in both locations was very consistent and endorsed the idea that good beer judging would get similar results from different judging panels & locations. Bob Grossman --Message_Part_SYNC81452E73A1-- --Next_Part_SYNC81452E73A1--