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Re: Digest for the period 4/21/01 - 4/22/01 (Reegleyj at aol.com)
Re: Digest for the period 4/21/01 - 4/22/01 (beerking1 at juno.com)
Brewed at home....  passion v. pro (Robert Paolino)

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Bill,

I suppose we could start a long drawn out hair-splitting discussion about 
what constitutes a professional. Is someone who has received income from 
writing books and articles a professional even if the have a day job? (i.e. 
Al Korzonas, Randy Mosher & George Fix). Is someone who brews for a brewpub, 
but also has another job, or is a full-time student, a professional? Is 
someone like Ray Daniels, who is a Siebel graduate, beer-related author, 
editor and event organizer, doesn't have a "day job", but has never worked in 
a commercial brewery a professional? Is someone who used to brew 
professionaly, but doesn't any longer a professional?

The bottom line is that the organizer(s) of each individual competition set 
the rules for that competition. If you want to organize a competition and 
exclude "professionals", you are free to do so. Keep in mind that you will be 
putting yourself in the business of answering the kind of questions I asked 
above. Good luck!

Brad Reeg

In a message dated 4/22/01 12:05:51 AM, judge at synchro.com writes:

<< From: Bill Wible  Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:19:21 -0400
Subject: Amateurs vs. pros


OK, looks like I misunderstood this issue.  I thought
once someone was considered a pro, they wouldn't and
shouldn't be entering beers in "amateur" homebrew
competitions - the same way a pro football player
or pro basketball player isn't allowed to go back
and play for amateur or college teams.

So you guys are saying it doesn't matter whether
someone is a Siebel or Weihenstephen graduate,
or if they have years of experience working in
a brewery in whatever capacity- they can still
enter beers in "amateur" homebrew competitions,
as long as the beer was "at home".  If that's
what the "rule" is, so be it, but I don't like
it.  To me, it still isn't fair, and takes the
fun out of it.

Still, I guess the BJCP doesn't keep track of
such things anyway, so I don't know how it
would ever be "discovered" that someone was a
pro in the first place.

Bill

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On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:04:03 -0400 "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest"
<judge at synchro.com> writes:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Bill Wible  Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:37:32 -0400
> Subject: Re:More than  one beer in a category
> 
> 
> Spencer,
> 
> The NHC is a special deal.  Isn't the NHC one of those
> contests you have to be "pre-qualified" for, and gain
> entry into only by winning another competition?  It's
> one of those "best of the best" deals.  Well, it stands
> to reason then that you can only have one entry per
> category in that competition.
> 
> I live in the Northeast region, Philadelphia area.
> None of the other contests you quoted rules from are
> in my area.  We basically have 3 - the War of the Worts,
> HOPS BOPS, and the Buzz Off.  There will be a new one
> this October called the BONES BASH.  Anyway, if I ever
> decide to enter contests outside this area, I'll have
> to pay attention to their rules.
> 
> As far as "laziness", what the heck are you talking
> about?  I was just saying that I want to be able to enter
> ALL of my beers that I think are good enough to enter, and
> not have to pick just one when two of them happen to be
> the same style.  That's sure not laziness, not when I have
> to bottle all those entries.  ;)  We all know how much
> we love to bottle.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
Actually, Bill, the NHC is not a "special deal." There is no requirement
to pre-qualify for the NHC, and hasn't been as long as I have been aware
of it (since 1984). The NHC is open to anyone, world-wide, and there is
no requirement that you have won anything prior to entry. OTOH, the
second round is made up of entries that have "qualified" in the first
round. This is a fairly recent development. I believe one of the main
reasons for this is pure logistics. With the number of entries received
every year (over 2000, I believe), it cuts down on the storage and
handling requirements. Never-the-less, the first round is still a part of
the NHC.

>From Philly, don't forget some of the great competitions in the fairly
nearby DC area, such as the upcoming Spirit of Free Beer, and the
(possibly defunct) DC Open. It's not too hard to get your beer down to
DC.

Lyle C. Brown
<beerking1 at juno.com>

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Subject: Brewed at home....  passion v. pro
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From: David Sherfey  Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 07:49:48 -0400

> It is helpful to remember that homebrewing is a hobby.  Hobbies are fun
> because we are passionate about them and do all sorts of whacky things to
> learn and do more.  Occasionally someone is even whacky enough to go
> professional.  That does not stop the passion........Even if you take your

But in too many instances, it forces passion into a cage when "management"
says you have to brew "flavour and aroma are optional" (or prohibited)
beers.  ("Make something that tastes like Corona.")  If a professional
brewer still wants to brew at home in free time after brewing all week at
work, more power to him (or her)! The passion must still be there even if
it sometimes has to get locked back in the cage on Monday.  As long as the
entry is brewed at home under homebrewing conditions, why not?

Free the brewers!

-- 
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino                            rpaolino at earth.execpc.com
Madison
I can taste my beer; can you?  Support your local craft brewers!


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Re: Digest for the period 4/21/01 - 4/22/01 (Reegleyj at aol.com)
Re: Digest for the period 4/21/01 - 4/22/01 (beerking1 at juno.com)
Brewed at home....  passion v. pro (Robert Paolino)

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Bill,

I suppose we could start a long drawn out hair-splitting discussion about 
what constitutes a professional. Is someone who has received income from 
writing books and articles a professional even if the have a day job? (i.e. 
Al Korzonas, Randy Mosher & George Fix). Is someone who brews for a brewpub, 
but also has another job, or is a full-time student, a professional? Is 
someone like Ray Daniels, who is a Siebel graduate, beer-related author, 
editor and event organizer, doesn't have a "day job", but has never worked in 
a commercial brewery a professional? Is someone who used to brew 
professionaly, but doesn't any longer a professional?

The bottom line is that the organizer(s) of each individual competition set 
the rules for that competition. If you want to organize a competition and 
exclude "professionals", you are free to do so. Keep in mind that you will be 
putting yourself in the business of answering the kind of questions I asked 
above. Good luck!

Brad Reeg

In a message dated 4/22/01 12:05:51 AM, judge at synchro.com writes:

<< From: Bill Wible  Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:19:21 -0400
Subject: Amateurs vs. pros


OK, looks like I misunderstood this issue.  I thought
once someone was considered a pro, they wouldn't and
shouldn't be entering beers in "amateur" homebrew
competitions - the same way a pro football player
or pro basketball player isn't allowed to go back
and play for amateur or college teams.

So you guys are saying it doesn't matter whether
someone is a Siebel or Weihenstephen graduate,
or if they have years of experience working in
a brewery in whatever capacity- they can still
enter beers in "amateur" homebrew competitions,
as long as the beer was "at home".  If that's
what the "rule" is, so be it, but I don't like
it.  To me, it still isn't fair, and takes the
fun out of it.

Still, I guess the BJCP doesn't keep track of
such things anyway, so I don't know how it
would ever be "discovered" that someone was a
pro in the first place.

Bill

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On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:04:03 -0400 "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest"
<judge at synchro.com> writes:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Bill Wible  Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:37:32 -0400
> Subject: Re:More than  one beer in a category
> 
> 
> Spencer,
> 
> The NHC is a special deal.  Isn't the NHC one of those
> contests you have to be "pre-qualified" for, and gain
> entry into only by winning another competition?  It's
> one of those "best of the best" deals.  Well, it stands
> to reason then that you can only have one entry per
> category in that competition.
> 
> I live in the Northeast region, Philadelphia area.
> None of the other contests you quoted rules from are
> in my area.  We basically have 3 - the War of the Worts,
> HOPS BOPS, and the Buzz Off.  There will be a new one
> this October called the BONES BASH.  Anyway, if I ever
> decide to enter contests outside this area, I'll have
> to pay attention to their rules.
> 
> As far as "laziness", what the heck are you talking
> about?  I was just saying that I want to be able to enter
> ALL of my beers that I think are good enough to enter, and
> not have to pick just one when two of them happen to be
> the same style.  That's sure not laziness, not when I have
> to bottle all those entries.  ;)  We all know how much
> we love to bottle.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
Actually, Bill, the NHC is not a "special deal." There is no requirement
to pre-qualify for the NHC, and hasn't been as long as I have been aware
of it (since 1984). The NHC is open to anyone, world-wide, and there is
no requirement that you have won anything prior to entry. OTOH, the
second round is made up of entries that have "qualified" in the first
round. This is a fairly recent development. I believe one of the main
reasons for this is pure logistics. With the number of entries received
every year (over 2000, I believe), it cuts down on the storage and
handling requirements. Never-the-less, the first round is still a part of
the NHC.

>From Philly, don't forget some of the great competitions in the fairly
nearby DC area, such as the upcoming Spirit of Free Beer, and the
(possibly defunct) DC Open. It's not too hard to get your beer down to
DC.

Lyle C. Brown
<beerking1 at juno.com>

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From: David Sherfey  Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 07:49:48 -0400

> It is helpful to remember that homebrewing is a hobby.  Hobbies are fun
> because we are passionate about them and do all sorts of whacky things to
> learn and do more.  Occasionally someone is even whacky enough to go
> professional.  That does not stop the passion........Even if you take your

But in too many instances, it forces passion into a cage when "management"
says you have to brew "flavour and aroma are optional" (or prohibited)
beers.  ("Make something that tastes like Corona.")  If a professional
brewer still wants to brew at home in free time after brewing all week at
work, more power to him (or her)! The passion must still be there even if
it sometimes has to get locked back in the cage on Monday.  As long as the
entry is brewed at home under homebrewing conditions, why not?

Free the brewers!

-- 
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino                            rpaolino at earth.execpc.com
Madison
I can taste my beer; can you?  Support your local craft brewers!


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