Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.21]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA18548 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA11589 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:04:46 -0500 (EST) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 02/26/01 - 02/27/01 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:02:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: --Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Lack of Required Info (Mark Tumarkin) --Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.226]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC6748291FD4 for judge at synchro.com; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:28:15 -0500 Received: from edenb (user-37kat2f.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.116.79]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18407 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:28:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c09f93$02f392a0$4f7445cf at edenb> From: "Mark Tumarkin" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Lack of Required Info Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:25:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message In several competitions that I've judge in recently, variations of the same problem have come up. The problem concerns the lack of required info that the brewer is supposed to provide. In a number of categories specific info is required of the brewer - these requirements are underlined in the style guidelines. For example, with mead "Entrants must specify whether the entry is still or sparkling mead. Entrants must also indicate whether the mead is dry, semi-sweet, or sweet". Other info is required for some beer styles, in fruit Lambics the "Entrant must specify the type of fruit used in making the entry." S/H/V, Smoked beer, and Specialty/Exp/Hist all require certain information to be given. My problem, and my question, is if the info is not specified how much do you ding the score? Would you prevent such an entry from placing (if it would do so otherwise)? Or maybe it's not all that serious an issue. But at this point the guidelines do say the info MUST be specified. How do you deal with this situation? In part, I feel this should be a problem for the competition registrar or organizer - not the judges. They should look for this information in the few styles where it's required. If it's not there, they could call the brewer and fill in the missing info. I know this is extra work so if they don't have time, maybe they should simply disqualify the entry. Or perhaps simply let the judges know how serious an infraction this is (or isn't) and how they'd like us to deal with it at their competition. In a way, I hate being such a stickler for rules/styles - but without them, what would a competition be? At the very least, I think it's only fair that a level of consistency is applied. What do you think? Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, Fl --Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86-- Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.21]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA18548 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.105]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA11589 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:04:46 -0500 (EST) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 02/26/01 - 02/27/01 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:02:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: --Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Lack of Required Info (Mark Tumarkin) --Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.226]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC6748291FD4 for judge at synchro.com; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:28:15 -0500 Received: from edenb (user-37kat2f.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.116.79]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18407 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:28:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c09f93$02f392a0$4f7445cf at edenb> From: "Mark Tumarkin" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Lack of Required Info Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:25:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message In several competitions that I've judge in recently, variations of the same problem have come up. The problem concerns the lack of required info that the brewer is supposed to provide. In a number of categories specific info is required of the brewer - these requirements are underlined in the style guidelines. For example, with mead "Entrants must specify whether the entry is still or sparkling mead. Entrants must also indicate whether the mead is dry, semi-sweet, or sweet". Other info is required for some beer styles, in fruit Lambics the "Entrant must specify the type of fruit used in making the entry." S/H/V, Smoked beer, and Specialty/Exp/Hist all require certain information to be given. My problem, and my question, is if the info is not specified how much do you ding the score? Would you prevent such an entry from placing (if it would do so otherwise)? Or maybe it's not all that serious an issue. But at this point the guidelines do say the info MUST be specified. How do you deal with this situation? In part, I feel this should be a problem for the competition registrar or organizer - not the judges. They should look for this information in the few styles where it's required. If it's not there, they could call the brewer and fill in the missing info. I know this is extra work so if they don't have time, maybe they should simply disqualify the entry. Or perhaps simply let the judges know how serious an infraction this is (or isn't) and how they'd like us to deal with it at their competition. In a way, I hate being such a stickler for rules/styles - but without them, what would a competition be? At the very least, I think it's only fair that a level of consistency is applied. What do you think? Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, Fl --Next_Part_SYNC6777292E86--