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Re: Sheck Judging comments (JazzboBob at aol.com)
difference between Tripel and Belgian Strong Golden Ale? (John S. Watson)
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  Good style judging evaluation skills along with speed and consistency can 
be learned with practice.  Do more contests and beer tastings to cultivate 
your skills.  Also, attend commercial beer gatherings and festivals to 
compare good micros and brewpub efforts.  Join or organize a homebrew club to 
explore many beers with other interested brewing folks.  Ten to twelve 
minutes should be more then enough time to make a good evaluation.  Sometimes 
the pace needs to be even quicker!  Practice to improve.
I personally take a little offense in your statement about brewers.

   "But  we are judging home brewed beers that are made without the skills
    of the professional brewers (and the methods they use to preserve the 
swill
    they market) and SHOULD be judged in a REASONABLE amount of time"

You should have a bit more respect, understanding, and appreciation of the 
many excellent dedicated commercial brewers out there that produce many world 
class beers without any preservatives or gimmicks.  Many of the best pro 
brewers got their start as great homebrewers.  And speaking of homebrewers, I 
may not have a commercial brewing degree or job, but I have spent years 
learning, brewing and honing my skills to homebrew beer that is of an award 
winning standard.  I know of many other homebrewers that have a passion for 
the art and science of brewing and possess tremendous brewing skills and 
knowledge.  Not all of us choose to give up our careers to turn into pro 
brewers.
Please, try to find some good local judges to guide you and expand your beer 
education.
Cheers,  Bob Grossman
<< <<<<<<<<<<< --------------------------------------------------------
 From: Bob Sheck  Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:48:38 -0400
 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 07/17/00 - 07/18/00
  
 Judging is not an easy sport! We must evaluate a beer in about 10-12 
 minutes time
 and go on to the next! In that time, we have to come up with sufficient words
 to completely describe the brew that we just consumed. This is not trivial
 for many of us. It's difficult for me to capture the correct words to 
 describe what
 my mouth/nose just felt in that amount of time.
 
 So I Agree that a "world class beer should be able to withstand" whatever. . 
.
 But  we are judging home brewed beers that are made without the skills
 of the professional brewers(and the methods they use to preserve the swill
 they market) and SHOULD be judged in a REASONABLE amount of time.
 
 Maybe this quest of being a BJCP "oh-my-god" is not for me, but I have
 to interject my feelings here. A beer should be entered for judgement with 
the
 full understanding that its ready for judgement!  If the judgement is 
 prolonged,
 then the organizers of the competition should be held accountable or
 some method of equalization should be enjoined.  Actually, what the hell
 is the hang-up here, anyway-maybe I just don't understand this whole drill!
 <i.e. Haven't grasped the whole aspect of comprehending the brewer's intent>
 
 I submit that I have yet a lot to learn about being a certified judge of 
 beers, and request
 <humbly> further elucidation.
  >>
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:24:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John S. Watson" <watson at george.arc.nasa.gov>
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Subject: difference between Tripel and Belgian Strong Golden Ale?
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Hello,

In my judging sofar and tastings, and even on while
traveling through Belgium, I still haven't
been able to figure something: What is the difference
between  a Tripel (18A) and Belgiun  Strong Golden Ale (18C)?

Other than the fact that one might be made in a monastery,
in my mind, they seem pretty much the same style of beer.

So if someone put samples of one of each in front of me,
what are the style differences what would "obviously" make 
the tripel a tripel, and  the BSGA a BSGA?

Thanks,
John

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Re: Sheck Judging comments (JazzboBob at aol.com)
difference between Tripel and Belgian Strong Golden Ale? (John S. Watson)
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  Good style judging evaluation skills along with speed and consistency can 
be learned with practice.  Do more contests and beer tastings to cultivate 
your skills.  Also, attend commercial beer gatherings and festivals to 
compare good micros and brewpub efforts.  Join or organize a homebrew club to 
explore many beers with other interested brewing folks.  Ten to twelve 
minutes should be more then enough time to make a good evaluation.  Sometimes 
the pace needs to be even quicker!  Practice to improve.
I personally take a little offense in your statement about brewers.

   "But  we are judging home brewed beers that are made without the skills
    of the professional brewers (and the methods they use to preserve the 
swill
    they market) and SHOULD be judged in a REASONABLE amount of time"

You should have a bit more respect, understanding, and appreciation of the 
many excellent dedicated commercial brewers out there that produce many world 
class beers without any preservatives or gimmicks.  Many of the best pro 
brewers got their start as great homebrewers.  And speaking of homebrewers, I 
may not have a commercial brewing degree or job, but I have spent years 
learning, brewing and honing my skills to homebrew beer that is of an award 
winning standard.  I know of many other homebrewers that have a passion for 
the art and science of brewing and possess tremendous brewing skills and 
knowledge.  Not all of us choose to give up our careers to turn into pro 
brewers.
Please, try to find some good local judges to guide you and expand your beer 
education.
Cheers,  Bob Grossman
<< <<<<<<<<<<< --------------------------------------------------------
 From: Bob Sheck  Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:48:38 -0400
 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 07/17/00 - 07/18/00
  
 Judging is not an easy sport! We must evaluate a beer in about 10-12 
 minutes time
 and go on to the next! In that time, we have to come up with sufficient words
 to completely describe the brew that we just consumed. This is not trivial
 for many of us. It's difficult for me to capture the correct words to 
 describe what
 my mouth/nose just felt in that amount of time.
 
 So I Agree that a "world class beer should be able to withstand" whatever. . 
.
 But  we are judging home brewed beers that are made without the skills
 of the professional brewers(and the methods they use to preserve the swill
 they market) and SHOULD be judged in a REASONABLE amount of time.
 
 Maybe this quest of being a BJCP "oh-my-god" is not for me, but I have
 to interject my feelings here. A beer should be entered for judgement with 
the
 full understanding that its ready for judgement!  If the judgement is 
 prolonged,
 then the organizers of the competition should be held accountable or
 some method of equalization should be enjoined.  Actually, what the hell
 is the hang-up here, anyway-maybe I just don't understand this whole drill!
 <i.e. Haven't grasped the whole aspect of comprehending the brewer's intent>
 
 I submit that I have yet a lot to learn about being a certified judge of 
 beers, and request
 <humbly> further elucidation.
  >>
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Subject: difference between Tripel and Belgian Strong Golden Ale?
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Hello,

In my judging sofar and tastings, and even on while
traveling through Belgium, I still haven't
been able to figure something: What is the difference
between  a Tripel (18A) and Belgiun  Strong Golden Ale (18C)?

Other than the fact that one might be made in a monastery,
in my mind, they seem pretty much the same style of beer.

So if someone put samples of one of each in front of me,
what are the style differences what would "obviously" make 
the tripel a tripel, and  the BSGA a BSGA?

Thanks,
John

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