Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA09940 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.109]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA27059 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:01:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 07/01/00 - 07/02/00 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 01:00:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 (Norman Dickenson) Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 (larry matthews) fruit beers (Bryan L. Gros) --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from libvax.sonoma.edu ([130.157.2.5]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC9831BF0C7 for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:03:34 -0400 Received: from conversion.sonoma.edu by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #39407) id <01JR7OY7OQW09ODIWU at SONOMA.EDU> for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:05:19 PDT Received: from [130.157.152.185] (East-152-185.sonoma.edu [130.157.152.185]) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #39407) with ESMTP id <01JR7OXX847Y9N4034 at SONOMA.EDU> for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:01:42 -0800 From: Norman Dickenson Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 In-reply-to: X-Sender: dickenso at sonoma.edu To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the BJCP now incorporated as an educational not-for-profit corporation? Norman Dickenson >Table of contents >------------------------------------------------------ >BJCP purpose (BrewInfo) > >-------------------------------------------------------- >From: BrewInfo Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:25:06 -0500 (CDT) >Subject: BJCP purpose > > >I recently was grading some BJCP exams and found that a great many >examinees were under the mistaken impression that the BJCP's purpose >includes educating judges about beer and judging. Actually, the >primary purposes of the BJCP are to administer exams, certify judges, >keep track of the members' rank, recognise competitions, distribute >judge lists to competitions, maintain official scoresheets and maintain >official Style Guidelines. > >I believe that I have found where all these examinees got the idea that >the BJCP is in the education business... the BJCP website! > >In the BJCP New Member Guide it says: > > The BJCP is a non-profit organization which encourages the > advancement of education of people who are concerned with the > evaluation of beer and related brewed products. The BJCP > certifies and ranks beer judges through an exam and monitoring > process. > >While this does not explicitly say it educates, it don't think I should >mark off on the exams if they say "education." > >Who is in charge of the website? Why isn't there an email address for >the webmaster somewhere on the website? Can the above statement be >reworded to not include the word "education" or explicitly state that >the BJCP does not educate beyond maintaining the BJCP Style Guidelines? > >Al. > >Al Korzonas, Lockport, Illinois, USA >korz at brewinfo.com >http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ > >P.S. I had a wonderful time at the AHA Conference. It was great meeting a >lot of people in person who I had only known electronically. The speakers >were all very interesting (I'm told even my talk was good...) and there >was a seemingly unlimited supply of excellent homebrew. I really liked the >way the Hospitality Suite was staffed by a different local club every >few hours. It gave the opportunity to taste an incredibly large number >of delicious homebrews. To those of you who wondered where I was during >the HBD Breakfast on Sunday: I was still looking at the insides of my >eyelids. I was up until 5am Saturday night after the Grand Banquet and >9am was far too early for b'fast! I haven't missed an AHA Conference >ever since my first one in 1992 (Milwaukee) and have every intention of >continuing this trend. If you haven't been to one, you should really >try to make it and see what drives me to keep attending. --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from pluto.ipass.net ([198.79.53.5]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC9891BF233 for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:52:05 -0400 Received: from lmatt (ppp-1-163.dialup.rdu.ipass.net [209.170.132.163]) by pluto.ipass.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA09099 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000630214559.007be8d0 at ipass.net> X-Sender: lmatt at ipass.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:45:59 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: larry matthews Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message At 01:03 AM 6/30/00 -0400, Al wrote: > > >I recently was grading some BJCP exams and found that a great many >examinees were under the mistaken impression that the BJCP's purpose >includes educating judges about beer and judging. Actually, the >primary purposes of the BJCP are to administer exams, certify judges, >keep track of the members' rank, recognise competitions, distribute >judge lists to competitions, maintain official scoresheets and maintain >official Style Guidelines. Al, In addition to all you list, I do believe it IS and SHOULD BE the misson of BJCP to educate judges and potential judges about beer, beer evaluation, brewing, historical study of the development of beer and beer styles as well as the administrative triva that must come with our organization. Certainly the ranking, testing, and score sheets are important but they take a backseat to the education mission in my view. Larry Matthews --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from mail021.mail.onemain.com ([63.208.208.71]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC10041BFD3A for judge at synchro.com; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 12:41:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 24794 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 16:41:19 -0000 Received: from 209-239-204-230.oak.jps.net (HELO grosli) ([209.239.204.230]) (envelope-sender ) by mail021.mail.onemain.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Jul 2000 16:41:19 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000701093558.009990f0 at mail.jps.net> X-Sender: bgros at mail.jps.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 09:36:25 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: fruit beers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Al K writs: > *** > Lyle writes: > >I disagree with Al. Some fruit beers I have made have been based on a > >particular style, such as a Raspberry Stout, etc. But, sometimes, I just > >want to make a fruit beer. A beer with fruit predominating, no balancing > >base style. I want the balance to be primarily fruit. This no longer fits > >in the category. .... > > You should be able to find a style that fits the base beer. Alas, Pale Mild > is not a style in the new guidelines and that could very well be a base for > 80% of all fruit beers. I think maybe the lack of the Pale Mild category > puts a monkeywrench in my intent. It's unfair if you really can't find a > style for the base beer. > I agree with Lyle on this one. As a compromise, many brewpub fruit beers are american wheat beers with fruit. This style makes a good base style, but the whole purpose is so that the fruit stands out. I would have a hard time finding any American wheat character in most Raspberry Wheats, and I can't see that as a flaw. The brewer doesn't want to beer character to come through. If, as a judge, I find the beer has great color, has a fresh raspberry aroma, and good overall berry flavor with a balance of sweet and tart, then it has succeeded as a great "Raspberry beer". In other words, I favor leaving in the subcategory of generic fruit beer where no base style is specified. Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Draught Board Homebrew Club http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/ --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57-- Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA09940 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.109]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA27059 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:01:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 07/01/00 - 07/02/00 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 01:00:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 (Norman Dickenson) Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 (larry matthews) fruit beers (Bryan L. Gros) --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from libvax.sonoma.edu ([130.157.2.5]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC9831BF0C7 for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:03:34 -0400 Received: from conversion.sonoma.edu by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #39407) id <01JR7OY7OQW09ODIWU at SONOMA.EDU> for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:05:19 PDT Received: from [130.157.152.185] (East-152-185.sonoma.edu [130.157.152.185]) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #39407) with ESMTP id <01JR7OXX847Y9N4034 at SONOMA.EDU> for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:01:42 -0800 From: Norman Dickenson Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 In-reply-to: X-Sender: dickenso at sonoma.edu To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the BJCP now incorporated as an educational not-for-profit corporation? Norman Dickenson >Table of contents >------------------------------------------------------ >BJCP purpose (BrewInfo) > >-------------------------------------------------------- >From: BrewInfo Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:25:06 -0500 (CDT) >Subject: BJCP purpose > > >I recently was grading some BJCP exams and found that a great many >examinees were under the mistaken impression that the BJCP's purpose >includes educating judges about beer and judging. Actually, the >primary purposes of the BJCP are to administer exams, certify judges, >keep track of the members' rank, recognise competitions, distribute >judge lists to competitions, maintain official scoresheets and maintain >official Style Guidelines. > >I believe that I have found where all these examinees got the idea that >the BJCP is in the education business... the BJCP website! > >In the BJCP New Member Guide it says: > > The BJCP is a non-profit organization which encourages the > advancement of education of people who are concerned with the > evaluation of beer and related brewed products. The BJCP > certifies and ranks beer judges through an exam and monitoring > process. > >While this does not explicitly say it educates, it don't think I should >mark off on the exams if they say "education." > >Who is in charge of the website? Why isn't there an email address for >the webmaster somewhere on the website? Can the above statement be >reworded to not include the word "education" or explicitly state that >the BJCP does not educate beyond maintaining the BJCP Style Guidelines? > >Al. > >Al Korzonas, Lockport, Illinois, USA >korz at brewinfo.com >http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ > >P.S. I had a wonderful time at the AHA Conference. It was great meeting a >lot of people in person who I had only known electronically. The speakers >were all very interesting (I'm told even my talk was good...) and there >was a seemingly unlimited supply of excellent homebrew. I really liked the >way the Hospitality Suite was staffed by a different local club every >few hours. It gave the opportunity to taste an incredibly large number >of delicious homebrews. To those of you who wondered where I was during >the HBD Breakfast on Sunday: I was still looking at the insides of my >eyelids. I was up until 5am Saturday night after the Grand Banquet and >9am was far too early for b'fast! I haven't missed an AHA Conference >ever since my first one in 1992 (Milwaukee) and have every intention of >continuing this trend. If you haven't been to one, you should really >try to make it and see what drives me to keep attending. --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from pluto.ipass.net ([198.79.53.5]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC9891BF233 for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:52:05 -0400 Received: from lmatt (ppp-1-163.dialup.rdu.ipass.net [209.170.132.163]) by pluto.ipass.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA09099 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000630214559.007be8d0 at ipass.net> X-Sender: lmatt at ipass.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:45:59 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: larry matthews Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/29/00 - 06/30/00 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message At 01:03 AM 6/30/00 -0400, Al wrote: > > >I recently was grading some BJCP exams and found that a great many >examinees were under the mistaken impression that the BJCP's purpose >includes educating judges about beer and judging. Actually, the >primary purposes of the BJCP are to administer exams, certify judges, >keep track of the members' rank, recognise competitions, distribute >judge lists to competitions, maintain official scoresheets and maintain >official Style Guidelines. Al, In addition to all you list, I do believe it IS and SHOULD BE the misson of BJCP to educate judges and potential judges about beer, beer evaluation, brewing, historical study of the development of beer and beer styles as well as the administrative triva that must come with our organization. Certainly the ranking, testing, and score sheets are important but they take a backseat to the education mission in my view. Larry Matthews --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from mail021.mail.onemain.com ([63.208.208.71]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC10041BFD3A for judge at synchro.com; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 12:41:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 24794 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 16:41:19 -0000 Received: from 209-239-204-230.oak.jps.net (HELO grosli) ([209.239.204.230]) (envelope-sender ) by mail021.mail.onemain.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Jul 2000 16:41:19 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000701093558.009990f0 at mail.jps.net> X-Sender: bgros at mail.jps.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 09:36:25 -0700 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: fruit beers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Al K writs: > *** > Lyle writes: > >I disagree with Al. Some fruit beers I have made have been based on a > >particular style, such as a Raspberry Stout, etc. But, sometimes, I just > >want to make a fruit beer. A beer with fruit predominating, no balancing > >base style. I want the balance to be primarily fruit. This no longer fits > >in the category. .... > > You should be able to find a style that fits the base beer. Alas, Pale Mild > is not a style in the new guidelines and that could very well be a base for > 80% of all fruit beers. I think maybe the lack of the Pale Mild category > puts a monkeywrench in my intent. It's unfair if you really can't find a > style for the base beer. > I agree with Lyle on this one. As a compromise, many brewpub fruit beers are american wheat beers with fruit. This style makes a good base style, but the whole purpose is so that the fruit stands out. I would have a hard time finding any American wheat character in most Raspberry Wheats, and I can't see that as a flaw. The brewer doesn't want to beer character to come through. If, as a judge, I find the beer has great color, has a fresh raspberry aroma, and good overall berry flavor with a balance of sweet and tart, then it has succeeded as a great "Raspberry beer". In other words, I favor leaving in the subcategory of generic fruit beer where no base style is specified. Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Draught Board Homebrew Club http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/ --Next_Part_SYNC10171BFF57--