Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA20132 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.109]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA06659 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:04:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 06/12/00 - 06/13/00 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:03:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ northeast rep congratulations (Jim Liddil) Re: Fruit and Spice/Herb/Vegetable categories (Bruce Millington) Re: Digest for the period 06/08/00 - 06/09/00 (beerking1 at juno.com) Re: Digest for the period 06/10/00 - 06/11/00 (beerking1 at juno.com) --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from VMS.Arizona.EDU ([128.196.128.131]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5441B5B63 for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:54:44 -0400 Received: from VMS.ARIZONA.EDU by VMS.ARIZONA.EDU (PMDF V6.0-24 #31138) id <01JQI6S0G028006ZTF at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU> for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:54:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:54:37 -0700 (MST) From: Jim Liddil Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: northeast rep congratulations In-reply-to: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message My congratualtions go out to Bill Slack on his re-election as the northeast BJCP rep. Jim Liddil North Haven, CT --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5491B5DBD for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:28:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 5821 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2000 17:28:44 -0000 Received: from pppa31-resalemarlton2-5r7359.saturn.bbn.com (HELO brucemil) (4.48.15.188) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 2000 17:28:44 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01bfbf5c$92e8f3e0$bc0f3004 at brucemil> From: "Bruce Millington" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Re: Fruit and Spice/Herb/Vegetable categories Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:31:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I feel that the base beer style must be specified when entering this category. As the guide reads now, "The entrant must specify the underlying beer style as well as the type of SHV(s) or fruit(s) used. It is too vague to get an entry that reads, "Not Specified by Brewer." While it is true to say that the beer must be judged by how well everything comes together, most of the art of brewing that beer lies in the base style. As a brewer, I would want to give the judge as much information as needed. I would want to receive feedback on how I could improve the base style, and how I could improve the mixture of ingredients with the base style. -Bruce Millington Marlton, NJ _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([63.211.172.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5571B61BF for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:57:32 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mX6KNoPSL8OFwsTX8dykUviZJp4oHmVrsA=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FAEKTGPB; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:55:10 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:36:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/08/00 - 06/09/00 Message-ID: <20000612.215544.-657765.1.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 15-16,19-20,29-30,35-36,38-41 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message After following the thread on the digest recently, I've decided to put in my 1 cent worth. FOr the most part, I'm in agreement with Dave's comments, but I must point out the responisbilities of the head judge, as separate from those of the organizer. The organizer needs to determine how to handle things like wrong size bottle, wrong color bottle, etc, but only to an extent. I have always felt part of the reason for the "rules of uniformity" is to preserve the anonymity of the beers. If you know someone who is always using Bass bottles (raised lettering), there is a good chance you will recognize the beer when you judge it. While most judges will be able to divorce themselves from friendship (I think we have a group that takes their task quite seriously), the IMPRESSION is just as important. If someone may percieve a conflict of interest, then it should be avoided, whether real or not. I once tasted a beer I knew from a friend. I confirmed the entrants name with a steward and quietly disqualified myself from the flight. I think most of our judges would act similarily. Regarding misentered beers/meads, that is up to the head judge. It is for the head judge to make as unbiased a call on contentious judging issues as he can. We actually came across a situation like the one mentioned, while judging at SoFB this weekend. I was doing meads, and we had a mead entered as sparkling, but without a hint of carbonation. It was a very good blackberry melomel, but we had to take points off for the misentering. Appearance just isn't right when you are expecting a head but get none. Same kind of argument for mouthfeel. We also had a Braggot with no carbonation. It was a good mead, but the style guideline clearly states that the carbonation should be "light to lively." Again, a good mead, but it had to lose points for being out of style. In most competitions, the style is how the beeer is being judged. People have many different tastes, and some standard has to be applied to equalize things. If not for style guidelines, I doubt we would ever even have a first place American Light Lager, much less any chance of it making BOS. That said, "styleless" competitions can be a lot of fun, but everyone knows how it is going in. Lyle C. Brown --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([63.211.172.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5571B61CB for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:57:37 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mX6KNoPSL8OFVuuhB9ocYfczqWtx0ptyaw=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FAEKTGQE; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:55:10 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:47:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/10/00 - 06/11/00 Message-ID: <20000612.215544.-657765.2.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-13,15-135 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message In respone to the Spice/Herb discussion, and the specification of style. I like Dave's response that style is allowed, not required. However, that is not how I read the wording. I entered a Spiced beer in SoFB. It was a Cipotle Chili Ale (are chipotles a spice, or a vegetable??). I interpreted the new guidelines as requireing a style, and entered it as an American Brown with Chipotles. The judges later told me they were looking for more American Brown character, and it might have placed if it was entered simply as a Chili Ale. No sour grapes here, I never expected this beer to take a first, but it is interesting to note that at least some people are confused by the wording. Lyle C. Brown On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 01:02:44 -0400 "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" writes: > Table of contents > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mead & Cider guidelines (Alison, Colin, Scott Birdwell) > Re: Digest for the period 06/09/00 - 06/10/00 (David Houseman) > > -------------------------------------------------------- > From: Alison, Colin, Scott Birdwell Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:22:21 > -0700 > Subject: Mead & Cider guidelines > > > The recent discussion on HBD about inadequacies of the Mead and > Cider > styles > in the new Beer Judge Certification Program style guide has not gone > un-noticed. The BJCP has commissioned a > small styles team to focus on a more thorough update of the Mead and > Cider > styles. This team will be lead by David Houseman. However, he > expects > to > utilize the experts in the these beverages rather than rely just on > beer > > brewers and judges. If you are such an expert in Mead or Cider, > please > contact David at dhousema at cccbi.org to volunteer your time to work > with > this > committee. > > Thanking you in advance, > Scott Birdwell > DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies > Houston (aka "Bonhamville") TX > BJCP Competition Committee Chairman > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > From: David Houseman Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:00:49 -0400 > Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/09/00 - 06/10/00 > > > Susan Ruud asks several questions about "classic styles" for the > Fruit, > Herb, Spice and Vegetable cageories in the new style guide. Good > questions. > > I can provide some insight into the thinking of the style guide > committee > when we created the most recent version. If you will recall the > previous > guide had in fact (A) Classic Style and (B) Other for these > categories. The > new guide tried to simplify the categorization somewhat by simply > having the > entrant specify a classic style (any of the other 20 styles/60+ > substyles) > if s/he wanted the beer to be judged as that style with the added > fruit, > spice, herb or vegetable. Otherwise it would be judged as the > previous open > "Other." As previously stated if one is left with "Other," simply > as a > Fruit Beer with, say blueberries, then one cannot judge the beer on > whether > the base beer is too bitter for style, the correct color for style, > etc. > But the judge of such specialities has to put more weight on how the > whole > beer comes together. A green blueberry beer wouldn't be as > appropriate as a > nice blue/purple beer for example. If the beer seems to be a crisp > blueberry pilsner one would expect greater clarity than a blueberry > weizen > as another example. Are the blueberries appropriate for the base > beer? Is > there a balance between the berry flavor and aroma and the malt and > hops? > To state that the beer is an American Pale Ale with Blueberries sets > different expectations for the judge than if the classic style were > not > specified. If the classic style is specified then it needs to be > judged on > both the classic style and how well the special ingredient comes > forth. If > the classic style is not specified then one can only judge as stated > above. > Specifically for smoked beers, same as fruit, spice, herb one can > specify a > classic style (robust porter for example) or not. And the judges > shouldn't > be docking points because the style isn't specified. But IMHO the > job of > judging beers without a specified style is more difficult and judges > may not > do as good a job as if it were specified. > > The existing style guide is now intended to be a living document. > It's not > perfect and the authors expected that it would be updated on some > periodic > basis as needed. If the wording is problematic or the collective > would like > to return to a clearer differentiation of the (A) Classic, (B) Other > substyles for these categories, then by all means we should consider > it. > Scott Birdwell, the BJCP Competition Director has the style guide > responsibility and would add this to any other requests for > consideration in > the next revision. I personally hope that this version of the style > guide > as a whole is an improvement over the previous version and that > those > entering BJCP and AHA sanctioned competitions find the common guide > a > benefit that avoids confusion. > > David Houseman > --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323-- Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.213.75.22]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA20132 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.109]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA06659 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:04:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 06/12/00 - 06/13/00 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:03:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ northeast rep congratulations (Jim Liddil) Re: Fruit and Spice/Herb/Vegetable categories (Bruce Millington) Re: Digest for the period 06/08/00 - 06/09/00 (beerking1 at juno.com) Re: Digest for the period 06/10/00 - 06/11/00 (beerking1 at juno.com) --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from VMS.Arizona.EDU ([128.196.128.131]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5441B5B63 for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:54:44 -0400 Received: from VMS.ARIZONA.EDU by VMS.ARIZONA.EDU (PMDF V6.0-24 #31138) id <01JQI6S0G028006ZTF at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU> for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:54:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:54:37 -0700 (MST) From: Jim Liddil Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: northeast rep congratulations In-reply-to: To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message My congratualtions go out to Bill Slack on his re-election as the northeast BJCP rep. Jim Liddil North Haven, CT --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5491B5DBD for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:28:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 5821 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2000 17:28:44 -0000 Received: from pppa31-resalemarlton2-5r7359.saturn.bbn.com (HELO brucemil) (4.48.15.188) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 2000 17:28:44 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01bfbf5c$92e8f3e0$bc0f3004 at brucemil> From: "Bruce Millington" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Re: Fruit and Spice/Herb/Vegetable categories Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:31:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I feel that the base beer style must be specified when entering this category. As the guide reads now, "The entrant must specify the underlying beer style as well as the type of SHV(s) or fruit(s) used. It is too vague to get an entry that reads, "Not Specified by Brewer." While it is true to say that the beer must be judged by how well everything comes together, most of the art of brewing that beer lies in the base style. As a brewer, I would want to give the judge as much information as needed. I would want to receive feedback on how I could improve the base style, and how I could improve the mixture of ingredients with the base style. -Bruce Millington Marlton, NJ _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([63.211.172.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5571B61BF for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:57:32 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mX6KNoPSL8OFwsTX8dykUviZJp4oHmVrsA=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FAEKTGPB; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:55:10 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:36:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/08/00 - 06/09/00 Message-ID: <20000612.215544.-657765.1.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 15-16,19-20,29-30,35-36,38-41 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message After following the thread on the digest recently, I've decided to put in my 1 cent worth. FOr the most part, I'm in agreement with Dave's comments, but I must point out the responisbilities of the head judge, as separate from those of the organizer. The organizer needs to determine how to handle things like wrong size bottle, wrong color bottle, etc, but only to an extent. I have always felt part of the reason for the "rules of uniformity" is to preserve the anonymity of the beers. If you know someone who is always using Bass bottles (raised lettering), there is a good chance you will recognize the beer when you judge it. While most judges will be able to divorce themselves from friendship (I think we have a group that takes their task quite seriously), the IMPRESSION is just as important. If someone may percieve a conflict of interest, then it should be avoided, whether real or not. I once tasted a beer I knew from a friend. I confirmed the entrants name with a steward and quietly disqualified myself from the flight. I think most of our judges would act similarily. Regarding misentered beers/meads, that is up to the head judge. It is for the head judge to make as unbiased a call on contentious judging issues as he can. We actually came across a situation like the one mentioned, while judging at SoFB this weekend. I was doing meads, and we had a mead entered as sparkling, but without a hint of carbonation. It was a very good blackberry melomel, but we had to take points off for the misentering. Appearance just isn't right when you are expecting a head but get none. Same kind of argument for mouthfeel. We also had a Braggot with no carbonation. It was a good mead, but the style guideline clearly states that the carbonation should be "light to lively." Again, a good mead, but it had to lose points for being out of style. In most competitions, the style is how the beeer is being judged. People have many different tastes, and some standard has to be applied to equalize things. If not for style guidelines, I doubt we would ever even have a first place American Light Lager, much less any chance of it making BOS. That said, "styleless" competitions can be a lot of fun, but everyone knows how it is going in. Lyle C. Brown --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from m10.boston.juno.com ([63.211.172.73]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id SYNC5571B61CB for judge at synchro.com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:57:37 -0400 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"extssRca8ocTdEyjEoV6mX6KNoPSL8OFVuuhB9ocYfczqWtx0ptyaw=="> Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FAEKTGQE; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:55:10 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:47:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/10/00 - 06/11/00 Message-ID: <20000612.215544.-657765.2.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-13,15-135 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: beerking1 at juno.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message In respone to the Spice/Herb discussion, and the specification of style. I like Dave's response that style is allowed, not required. However, that is not how I read the wording. I entered a Spiced beer in SoFB. It was a Cipotle Chili Ale (are chipotles a spice, or a vegetable??). I interpreted the new guidelines as requireing a style, and entered it as an American Brown with Chipotles. The judges later told me they were looking for more American Brown character, and it might have placed if it was entered simply as a Chili Ale. No sour grapes here, I never expected this beer to take a first, but it is interesting to note that at least some people are confused by the wording. Lyle C. Brown On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 01:02:44 -0400 "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" writes: > Table of contents > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mead & Cider guidelines (Alison, Colin, Scott Birdwell) > Re: Digest for the period 06/09/00 - 06/10/00 (David Houseman) > > -------------------------------------------------------- > From: Alison, Colin, Scott Birdwell Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:22:21 > -0700 > Subject: Mead & Cider guidelines > > > The recent discussion on HBD about inadequacies of the Mead and > Cider > styles > in the new Beer Judge Certification Program style guide has not gone > un-noticed. The BJCP has commissioned a > small styles team to focus on a more thorough update of the Mead and > Cider > styles. This team will be lead by David Houseman. However, he > expects > to > utilize the experts in the these beverages rather than rely just on > beer > > brewers and judges. If you are such an expert in Mead or Cider, > please > contact David at dhousema at cccbi.org to volunteer your time to work > with > this > committee. > > Thanking you in advance, > Scott Birdwell > DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies > Houston (aka "Bonhamville") TX > BJCP Competition Committee Chairman > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > From: David Houseman Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:00:49 -0400 > Subject: Re: Digest for the period 06/09/00 - 06/10/00 > > > Susan Ruud asks several questions about "classic styles" for the > Fruit, > Herb, Spice and Vegetable cageories in the new style guide. Good > questions. > > I can provide some insight into the thinking of the style guide > committee > when we created the most recent version. If you will recall the > previous > guide had in fact (A) Classic Style and (B) Other for these > categories. The > new guide tried to simplify the categorization somewhat by simply > having the > entrant specify a classic style (any of the other 20 styles/60+ > substyles) > if s/he wanted the beer to be judged as that style with the added > fruit, > spice, herb or vegetable. Otherwise it would be judged as the > previous open > "Other." As previously stated if one is left with "Other," simply > as a > Fruit Beer with, say blueberries, then one cannot judge the beer on > whether > the base beer is too bitter for style, the correct color for style, > etc. > But the judge of such specialities has to put more weight on how the > whole > beer comes together. A green blueberry beer wouldn't be as > appropriate as a > nice blue/purple beer for example. If the beer seems to be a crisp > blueberry pilsner one would expect greater clarity than a blueberry > weizen > as another example. Are the blueberries appropriate for the base > beer? Is > there a balance between the berry flavor and aroma and the malt and > hops? > To state that the beer is an American Pale Ale with Blueberries sets > different expectations for the judge than if the classic style were > not > specified. If the classic style is specified then it needs to be > judged on > both the classic style and how well the special ingredient comes > forth. If > the classic style is not specified then one can only judge as stated > above. > Specifically for smoked beers, same as fruit, spice, herb one can > specify a > classic style (robust porter for example) or not. And the judges > shouldn't > be docking points because the style isn't specified. But IMHO the > job of > judging beers without a specified style is more difficult and judges > may not > do as good a job as if it were specified. > > The existing style guide is now intended to be a living document. > It's not > perfect and the authors expected that it would be updated on some > periodic > basis as needed. If the wording is problematic or the collective > would like > to return to a clearer differentiation of the (A) Classic, (B) Other > substyles for these categories, then by all means we should consider > it. > Scott Birdwell, the BJCP Competition Director has the style guide > responsibility and would add this to any other requests for > consideration in > the next revision. I personally hope that this version of the style > guide > as a whole is an improvement over the previous version and that > those > entering BJCP and AHA sanctioned competitions find the common guide > a > benefit that avoids confusion. > > David Houseman > --Next_Part_SYNC5611B6323--