Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA16658 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:04:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA25164 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:04:57 -0500 (EST) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 02/11/99 - 02/12/99 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:00:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC8873629E6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC8873629E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Volunteers (Bill Giffin) Points database on the web (John Robinson) Database Online (MaltyDog at aol.com) style guidelines (Bryan L. Gros) --Next_Part_SYNC8873629E6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.1.0.1036) id SYNC8854628C7; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:54:23 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA11416 for postmaster at synchro.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:53:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from groucho.ctel.net (groucho.ctel.net [208.221.72.2]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA11348 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:52:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from billg ([209.222.75.2]) by groucho.ctel.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA28917 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:55:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902111155.GAA28917 at groucho.ctel.net> From: "Bill Giffin" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:50:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Volunteers Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Good morning all,  If you volunteer to judge one competition in a two year period as a BJCP judge you have meet your responsibility to the BJCP to continue on as a member in good standing. As a member in good standing you have certain rights, such as having all of the minutes of the Board of Directors of the BJCP published and provided to you as a member in good standing.  The Board of Directors of the BJCP have failed in this responsibility to the members of the BJCP who have meet the requirement of membership.  The Treasurer of the BJCP is responsible to file all necessary tax returns with the IRS and the State of New York, as well as providing the membership with financial statements twice a year. He has failed to provide these services.  The Secretary of the BJCP has not provided the membership with the minutes of the meetings of the Board of Directors of the BJCP. He has shirked his responsibility to the membership.  As there are no checks or balances in the exam program or at least none that have been communicated to the membership, how can you be sure that the grade you are assigned on the exam is the grade you earned on the exam?  Who are these hard working individuals who are being "flogged" for their hard work in keeping the BJCP functioning? Based on the available information from the Board of Directors can you be sure that the BJCP is functioning. These folks who ever they may be are not being flogged for their hard work; they are being criticized for their lack of accomplishment. Working hard and getting the job completed is not the same thing. The hard working volunteers that Jay speaks about so proudly are not fulfilling the requirements set forth in the bylaws for their positions.  How can any of us who are not in the inner circle know where help is needed let alone volunteer to help. Are folks like Jim Liddil who volunteered and were not even given the courtesy of a reply to his offer going to be eager to volunteer again? I think not.  Keeping the membership informed is critical to keeping the BJCP as a viable and functioning organization.  Perhaps Bill Slack will take the time to respond as he is the only one on the Board that has the power of speech Though I wager that Bill will categorize any post from me as a "diatribe" therefor not worthy of any comment.  Bill  --Next_Part_SYNC8873629E6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.1.0.1036) id SYNC8856628D4; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:15:39 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA22230 for postmaster at synchro.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:14:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from osprey.mgnet.ca (www.mgnet.ca [198.164.55.1]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22113 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:13:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from novalistech.com by osprey.mgnet.ca for id JAA09122; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:22:53 -0400 Received: from chilifang by novalistech.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id JAA14768; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:16:23 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: <199902111316.JAA14768 at novalistech.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "John Robinson" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Organization: NovaLIS Technologies To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:20:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Points database on the web Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Spencer W Thomas wrote: > The basic problem here is that the BJCP web site has no way of knowing > that you are you. In order to prevent someone else from masquerading > as you, the BJCP database must contain some information about you that > is known only to you (and the BJCP). This is not currently the case. I forget, but does the database have our email addresses? Why not collect those via mail-in, this forum or whatever other mechanism seems to make sense, and then setup the web site so that your results are emailed to you? Then anyone could request to see your scores, but only you would get the message.... --- John Robinson "The most basic rule of survival in any situation is: Technical Architect Never look like food." - Park Ranger. NovaLIS Technologies robinson at novalistech.com --Next_Part_SYNC8873629E6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.1.0.1036) id SYNC885762907; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:19:03 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA05720 for postmaster at synchro.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:18:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05648 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:17:46 -0500 (EST) From: MaltyDog at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Received: from MaltyDog at aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XCTDa05309 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:17:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <22438611.36c2e68d at aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:17:49 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Database Online Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO It seems to me that it would be very easy for the BJCP points to remain secure; simply don't post names, only Judge ID numbers, with the points, the same way that competitions post results by entry number. I'm sure that we can all remember our numbers, and I'm quite willing to have my points up there by my ID number. Bill Coleman MaltyDog at aol.com --Next_Part_SYNC8873629E6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.1.0.1036) id SYNC886262979; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:29:47 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA12586 for postmaster at synchro.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:29:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu (nak.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.206.21]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12416 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sensitivity (ucbvscohn.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.232.84]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA15466 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:30:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990211111611.00a95220 at spectacle.berkeley.edu> X-Sender: bgros at spectacle.berkeley.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:31:21 -0800 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: style guidelines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO At a competition I organized last weekend, I provided "beta" copies of the new style guidelines being developed to the judges (I'm on the style guideline committee for the BJCP, I hope this wasn't breaking any major protocols). Mostly I did this because the new guidelines are much improved over the old ones and partly because I wanted to get some feedback from judges. I was suprised when several judges pointed out that these guidelines were not available to the entrants and therefore, it was not fair for the judges to use them while judging the beers. I realize that in an ideal world, there would be a universally acceptable set of style descriptions that all brewers and judges would refer to. In the real world, we just try to get a set that is as close as possible to what most brewers accept as a complete style description. So there are several sets of descriptions out there and some are better than others. Anyway, I was told once on this forum that judges should not be expected to judge a beer by the specific written competition guidelines. Those guidelines are just a reference, but a good judge is expected to have an "internal" idea of each style based on reading, research, tasting and discussion. Certainly, guidelines are not available to judges during the exam. So does anyone feel that it is the competition's responsibility to provide to entrants a full description of acceptable styles (assuming we're talking about standard AHA/BJCP styles and not original things like "small dark ales", "big dark ales" etc)? Should judges use the competition's style descriptions directly when judging? Can there be serious disagreement as to the specifics of style descriptions that need to be clarified for each competition? *** As an aside, if you entered the Bay Area Brew Off, prizes and scoresheets went in the mail this morning. Thanks for your entry(ies). Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm --Next_Part_SYNC8873629E6--