Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.35]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA17099 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA16194 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:10:17 -0500 (EST) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 02/05/99 - 02/06/99 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 01:04:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC8729615C6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC8729615C6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Judge Net Postings regarding the website (Lyle C. Brown) Club Newsletters and the BJCP (Chuck Bernard) Confidentiality in judging records (Scott Bickham) Organizer entries (Norman Dickenson) --Next_Part_SYNC8729615C6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC870160BA7; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:44:31 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA07322 for postmaster at synchro.com; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:41:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from x13.boston.juno.com (x13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.27]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07223 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by x13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2NMY4HA; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:39:14 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:31:33 -0500 Subject: Judge Net Postings regarding the website Message-ID: <19990204.213615.-164149.0.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-13,18-19,29-30,37-38,45-46,53-54,57-58,64-65,67-68,75-76,87-90 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lyle C. Brown" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO In a recent posting, I made some comments about the BJCP Web Site. Specifically: "Here, I must STRONGLY disagree!! The website is good, and I appreciate the time and efforts of the volunteers who keep it up, but it is DEFINITELY NOT always current. Take for example the points database, which was advertised as "coming soon" for nearly a year. Now it has apparently dissapeared completely. I have never found the exam and competition schedule to be anywhere near complete, and seldom current." After this, Scott Bickham took exception to my comments. I did not give Scott proper and full credit for the great improvement of the webiste over the last few months, which I should have. The web site HAS improved alot, but since I stopped looking at the competition schedule, out of frustration in about September, I was unaware of that area being more up to date, complete and current than it had been. Scott's explanation of the points database is reasonable, although perhaps uninformed. He is right about our privacy, and I appreciate that. Where he misses the mark is with Filemaker Pro. I run a Software Support Agency for the Navy, and we have a website (128 bit secured, and password protected) which allows registered users to submit Software Trouble Reports online, which we retrieve and maintain in a database. The format? Filemaker Pro for both the online and offline databases. In fact, registered users can browse the Filemaker Pro Database online. However, the fact still remains that our points record are our personal business, and should not be publicly available. Scott is right. I do apologize to Scott for not crediting him for the improvement in the website, I do not apologize for my statement that "I have never found the exam and competition schedule to be anywhere near complete, and seldom current." This was a fact, it was my experience. In calling my experience "an outright lie" Scott was wrong. In resorting to name calling, I believe Scott owes me an apology. I stated what my experience was, and did not resort to name calling. In fact, as Scott quotes, I started my statement with "The website is good, and I appreciate the time and efforts of the volunteers who keep it up" My intention was to offer a viewpoint, and not a direct flame or slam against the BJCP or anyone associated with it. I have intentionally tried to include positive statements about the BJCP whenever I have posted any criticism of any kind. If any of my postings come across as flames, for this I, again, apologize. While Scott has done a VERY good job of keeping the website current since November, that is only 3 months. This means the website has been current for 25% of the past year. That hardly qualifies as "always current" as was previously stated in this forum. Still, the fact is that it is better, and indications are that 9 months from now we will be able to use a one year example to say the website IS always current. But we're not there yet. I have had personal coorespondence with Scott in the past, by email and phone. He has always seemed reasonable. His response, and resorting to name calling surprises and perplexes me. Since his post, I have now revisited the exam and competition schedule. I am no linger frustrated. It does appear to be current and complete, now. Problem is, niether a newsletter or a website can compete with the "call for judges" mailings that most competitions put out. This is the most current and complete source available, provided we stay current and active as judges. In an attempt to further clarify my position, I quote from a recent email I sent to the SE Rep: "I was not slamming the BJCP. I tried hard to include positive comments in my emails about the BJCP. If I gave that impression, I apologize. As I have stated on Judgenet, I very much appreciate the hard work that volunteers such as yourself put into the program. I am only hoping to include my feedback as one viewpoint, which can hopefully provide some insight as to which way to go, and not to go, next, and what works and what doesn't. IMHO I am afraid my posting today may have sounded a little harsh regarding the web page. I have a problem with members suggesting that the web page and the net should be the primary means of contacting all judges. I have only been on judgenet since July '98. Obviously I missed alot. I use the net alot at work, and do not maintain regular net access at home. This leaves me out of the argument that the net and the web are sufficient. I do use the BJCP web page, and I appreciate it. I don't, however, think it qualifies as the most current source for exam schedules and competitions. Actually, AHA does a better job at that. The good news is that the web page has improved tremendously in the last 6 months, but it is not done yet. And that's OK." Lyle C. Brown ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --Next_Part_SYNC8729615C6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC87146149D; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:39:26 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA01252 for postmaster at synchro.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp0.mindspring.com (smtp0.mindspring.com [207.69.200.30]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01000 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:35:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (user-37kb325.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.140.69]) by smtp0.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA18382; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:37:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005901be511d$479c9c60$458c45cf at default> From: "Chuck Bernard" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: "Stephen Johnson" Subject: Club Newsletters and the BJCP Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:35:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Others have witten regarding a newsletter. . . > >I would also like to emphasize Ed's statement that the newsletter > >does not write itself. I have been involved with a number of > >homebrew cluds which have evolved to the state where most of > >the articles are written by a single member. AND > >In our local homebrew club, our Communications Director is a very busy > >man. Sometimes the newsletter goes out with a hitch, sometimes it's > >late, and sometimes it doesn't go. To which Phil Doersam responds. . . > I'm sorry, but if I was a member of a homebrew club that couldn't get the > newsletter out the door every month, at more or less the same time, I'd > lobby to take over the job myself or I'd find/create another club. In my > opinion, the strength of a homebrew club can be measured by the newsletter > -- content, writing, layout and frequency. If 90% of your membership > doesn't care or bother as you state, what does that say about the club? > Not much. Being the newsletter editor for the Music City Brewers, I'll be the first to agree with the statement about the newsletter not writing itself. I solicit articles from club members every month and sometimes I receive submissions and sometimes I don't. We send a six page (12 sided) newsletter every month with 8 sides of editorial content. After placing the ads I more often than not am faced with looking at 8 blank pages with nothing but perhaps an AHA calendar of events and a recap of our last meeting. But when I volunteered for the job, I also accepted the responsibilty to get a newsletter out EVERY MONTH in time for the next meeting. It's something we promise our memerbship; it's even stated as a member benefit on the back of each member's membership card. If it means staying up until 2 or 3 AM to make sure I fill the editorial space, proofread it and get it ready for the copy shop so it gets in the mail on time, so be it! I knew that when I accepted the job, volunteer or otherwise. It's a responsibilty I accepted and members EXPECT to get a newsletter. Hell, some may even READ IT and depend on it for information or improving their brewing skills. And I do this every month! Certainly there is enough news and information about the Organization that the BJCP could produce a newsletter _half_ that size 4 times a year. I agree with Phil Doersam about measuring the strength of a club by it's newsletter. If our club didn't produce, produced and erratic or low content product, I probably wouldn't be club member. Our huge increase in membership from 97 to 98 is probably directly attributable to the newsletter samples left at local HB shops and brewpubs. I'm damn proud our newsletter and am willing to put it up against any other club of our size and age. The important thing is, its a quality product and goes out every month because we've promised it to our membership. Chuck Bernard bernardch at mindspring.com Editor, "The Score" - The Official Brewsletter of the Music City Brewers Nashville, TN - Music CityUSA --Next_Part_SYNC8729615C6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC87166151F; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:35:06 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA05913 for postmaster at synchro.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailman.lanl.gov (mailman.lanl.gov [128.165.5.1]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05605 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:30:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from t4.lanl.gov (t4.lanl.gov [128.165.124.150]) by mailman.lanl.gov (8.9.2/8.9.2/(cic-5, 1/3/99)) with ESMTP id KAA06954 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:32:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from atom.lanl.gov (atom.lanl.gov [128.165.124.151]) by t4.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01786 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from srb at localhost) by atom.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07626 for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:31:54 -0700 (MST) From: Scott Bickham Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Message-Id: <199902051731.KAA07626 at atom.lanl.gov> Subject: Confidentiality in judging records To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:31:54 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: from "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" at Feb 5, 99 01:04:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Several people asked about the confidentiality of judging records. While I have nothing to hide in mine, exam scores and the number of attempts are some aspects that some judges may not want revealed. Similarly, there is often friendly and not-so-unfriendly competition to reach certain judging levels. I have encountered one judge who has been judging for a number of years, but threw a temper tantrum when he was not selected to judge BOS. He also attempted to use his experience (in years) to leverage younger judges who actually had more experience (in number of competitions). This situation would only get uglier if he could go home and retrieve judging records to form dossiers on potential competitors for the BOS judging slots. I admit that this is hypothetical, but nothing surprises me based on the ludicrous accusations and lies I have seen posted recently. Speaking of records, it sounds like there are people who know much more about databases than I do. If Filemaker Pro can be linked to the web, then we could certainly make a version that has some of the more sensitive fields deleted. If anyone wants to take up this project, I can offer some Grand Master Service credit, and the same goes for making the web page snazzier. The board would also probably approve a moderate fee and give due credit for both of these tasks. Scott Bickham bickham at trail.com --Next_Part_SYNC8729615C6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC871861554; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:39:44 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA12318 for postmaster at synchro.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:38:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu (melvax.sonoma.edu [130.157.12.42]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12070 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from qmlink.sonoma.edu by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3138) with SMTP id <01J7DT3SEY6U8Y5QQM at SONOMA.EDU> for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:38:16 PST Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:33:33 -0800 From: Norman Dickenson Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Organizer entries To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Subject: Time: 10:59 AM OFFICE MEMO Organizer entries Date: 2/5/99 Phil Doersam asks: >Can anyone tell me what the official view is on a BJCP sanctioned >competition organizer entering beers in the same competition he/she organizes? > >Should I assume this practice is commonplace in BJCP competitions, wether >entered anonymously or not? I served on the Competition Committee back when the "rules" and guidelines were developed. It was quite the debate amongst the committee members whether we should "allow" this practice. It was agreed that we are not equipped to be an enforcement agency and decided to insert a recommendation that organizers or any assistants who have had access to both bottles and entry forms ought not to enter their own competitions so as to avoid any possibility that anyone could question the integrety of the competition. Some competitions have pretty lucrative prizes. It would look pretty bad for a competition organizer to win a trip to Hawaii for winning BOS in his/her own competition. Once when I oranized a competition, I entered it using my wife's name. My entry was going to win it's class and go to BOS. I thought better of the situation and disqualified myself. Norm norman.dickenson at sonoma.edu --Next_Part_SYNC8729615C6--