Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA05332 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:08:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA04634 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:08:32 -0500 (EST) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 01/30/99 - 01/31/99 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:04:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Digest for the period 01/28/99 - 01/29/99 (Lynhbrew at aol.com) newsletters and finances--what about competition fees? (Robert Paolino) Re: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: sychro.com: host not found) (David Houseman) Paid Subscriptions? (Martin Lodahl) BJCP Committees and Newsletters (Stephen Johnson) --Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC85685F596; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:49:57 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA17979 for postmaster at synchro.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:49:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17904 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:48:15 -0500 (EST) From: Lynhbrew at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Received: from Lynhbrew at aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PKFEa03538 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:48:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:48:49 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 01/28/99 - 01/29/99 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO In a message dated 1/29/99 1:08:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, judge at synchro.com writes: << Lyle C. Brown >> Lyle, I would be interested in knowing where to subscribe to a rare beer club. Is it public? You can answer here or send to LYNHBREW at AOL.COM. Thanks --Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC85715F5BB; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:32:29 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA04724 for postmaster at synchro.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:30:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (sendmail at mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04605 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:29:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from earth (rpaolino at earth.execpc.com [169.207.16.1]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.1) id KAA03281 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:30:41 -0600 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:30:41 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Paolino Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com X-Sender: rpaolino at earth To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: newsletters and finances--what about competition fees? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Jay writes: > have we talked about ANYTHING substantial here recently other than all the > back and forth on the rumblings eminating from the NE kingdom??? I just > can't imagine that people want to have the BJCP spend it's on publishing > that kind of poop.... I already get it once in my email, why would I want it in my postal mailbox... and why should we subject anyone else to it? If anything, many people have been known to unsubscribe from email lists when the "content" gets so bad that it isn't worth the trouble to read the messages. > One other thing people forget about the BJCP finance structure. Their is no > annual dues. The test fee is it. For as long as you participate in the > BJCP you need never pay more than that first fee (yes in reality most people > will take the exam more than once, but that cost is reduced on retakes). _MOST_ people? > These one time fees need to cover mailing costs, administrative costs for > grading and other business, and other one time costs for things like SW. > > So while it looks like we have a lot of cash right now, the BJCP is a > pyramid financing scheme (like social security). As long as we grow we have > ongoing/increasing funds. If participation levels out or decreases we will > need to rely on cash reserves, or start charging annual dues. Publishing a Well, this isn't exactly true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there fees for sanctioning (recognising, recording, registering, whatever) competitions? Testing fees aren't the sole source of revenue. > newsletter just for the sake of it when there is no substantive info to > communicate seems to be to be counter to what long term fiscal planning Agreed. If there's nothing to report during the year, a simple newsletter sent with the annual points report just to say that BJCP is still around keeping records would be fine. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison I can taste my beer. Can you? Bland Beer is the Worst Sort of Tyranny! Don't drink bland industrial swill; it only encourages them to make more. --Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC85725F5D9; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:08:36 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA08995 for postmaster at synchro.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:07:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from priam.chesco.net (priam.chesco.net [204.108.253.90]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08926 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:06:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from TR-dlhousemanREM.tr.unisys.com (shiva3.btcwcu.org [204.108.253.142]) by priam.chesco.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18067 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:07:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:07:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901301707.MAA18067 at priam.chesco.net> X-Sender: dhousema at mail.cccbi.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: David Houseman Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: sychro.com: host not found) Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Au contraire, the BJCP Style Guide Committee is VERY active. We're about two styles short of a complete new style guide that will be assembled and passed to the board for approval (hopefully quickly) and posting on the BJCP Web Site. This was to be completed last year but volunteers over email is pretty slow, but quite effective given the talents involved. Dave Houseman --Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC85725F5F7; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:56:54 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA13772 for postmaster at synchro.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:53:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root at ns1.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13738 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:52:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from kriek (redwood-Q2.foothill.net [204.131.12.2]) by ns1.foothill.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA29495 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:09:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002c01be4c6d$9d779a40$6400a8c0 at kriek> From: "Martin Lodahl" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: Paid Subscriptions? Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:28:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Lyle C. Brown mystified me: >That may have been what was stated in the first issue, but in the mailing >I received before the first issue of the points report (the predecessor >to the newsletter)... As an aside, the points report and the newsletter aren't related. They're completely separate communications. But back to my real question ... > ... it was promised to be published quarterly. This >mailing promised a quarterly update on points record and important news >and events in the program. > >Ironically enough, the purpose of that mailing was to solicit PAID >SUBSCRIPTIONS. I paid for a subscription, on the assumption that (as >stated) only those who paid the subscription would get the newsletter. Lyle, can you be a little more specific about this? I've been on the BJCP's Board since before it was a Board (i.e., before The Great Schism), and don't recall anything remotely like this, but it's always possible my memory's simply faulty. When was this mailing? Was it signed? What region were you living in then? - Martin -- Martin Lodahl, of Auburn, California, USA lodahl at foothill.net Beer Brewer and Judge --Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC85765F652; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:06:33 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA04786 for postmaster at synchro.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:05:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer2.mail.vanderbilt.edu (mailer2.mail.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.1.212]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04763 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:04:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from susan.vanderbilt.edu (A167163.N1.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.167.163]) by mailer2.mail.vanderbilt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1/VU-3.0.2) with SMTP id PAA21546 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:06:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990130150635.006dd07c at j.mail.vanderbilt.edu> X-Sender: johnsosm at j.mail.vanderbilt.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:06:35 -0600 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: Stephen Johnson Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: BJCP Committees and Newsletters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO In a recent Judge Digest (1/29-1/30), Jay Hersh makes a few comments about the recent thread about the BJCP newletter (or lack thereof) and possible information that some have suggested could appear in more frequent issues. I'd like to comment in particular on three points he makes: 1. It is also my opinion that the last thing the committees need is people not engaged in the regular discussion of the committee weighing in on it's progress or decisions based on updates in the newsletter. There is nothing that can bring a committee effort to a halt like having people second guess it's decisions as it works. If you really want to voice an opinion join a committee. ME: Obviously, the BJCP is not set up in the model of a representative government. I admire those who do serve on the committees, because much hard work goes on at that level. However, I would like to think that those committee members are making their good judgments based on what they feel represent the thoughts of the BJCP as a whole. I, for one, would not feel that it were my place to second guess a committee's decisions while they were at work. However, I DO think that some level of input from the membership would give the committee members a better idea of the membership's opinions. I don't think that being on a committee should be the only way for the majority of us to voice opinions on what goes on with the BJCP or its committees. As a relatively new judge, I have found out much more about the goings on of the BJCP through this forum than through the organization itself, and see that lack of communication directly from the parent organization as a real weakness. It has been my understanding from how the BJCP is presently organized as described in the most recent BJCP Reporter, that the prescribed method of voicing opinions is to contact your regional representative. However, if we have little or no knowledge about what the current committees are working on (or might plan to work on in future committees), then I see it hard to know what I should ever want to discuss with my regional representative. My sense from some of the issues raised here in the past is that for those who DO use the regional representative, a good many of those contacts are to find out why experience points haven't been updated. 2. ...have we talked about ANYTHING substantial here recently other than all the back and forth on the rumblings eminating from the NE kingdom??? ME: Well, if my memory serves me correct, I recall some interesting feedback from lots of people last fall during an ongoing thread about BOS judging and preliminary round judging, topics which were both helpful when it came time to organizing our most recent event back in October. Also, there was a good discussion about judges who are brewers getting a break when attending out-of-town competitions in terms of bringing their entries in on the day of an event. I think that thread in particular was started as a result of a letter to the editor that appeared in the last issue of the BJCP Reporter (Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged...or something like that)! 3. One other thing people forget about the BJCP finance structure. Their is no annual dues... As long as we grow we have ongoing/increasing funds. If participation levels out or decreases we will need to rely on cash reserves, or start charging annual dues. Publishing a newsletter just for the sake of it when there is no substantive info to communicate seems to be to be counter to what long term fiscal planning might dictate. ME: In my mind, the lack of a regular newsletter is one sure way to see that participation will level out or decrease over the long haul. One important way of increasing membership is giving members a good reason to join in the first place. Our homebrewing club has been putting together a monthly newsletter for almost 3 years now, and have managed to do so by charging annual dues and a minimal amount for advertising from some of our local businesses (brewpubs and supply shops). The newsletter is always a good way to "grab" the interest of potential new members and help them feel connected. Other organizations that I have belonged to on a similar scale as the BJCP have managed to support their newsletters through similar methods, such as ad space for event organizers. I would be more than willing to pay for an ad to the BJCP Reporter as a way of generating exposure for some special event such as our annual competition or an upcoming event such as the visit we have planned from Ray Daniels in April. I would also be willing to pay some annual dues if I knew it would help support a regular newsletter or some administrative staff position to help with processing points from competitions. However, until we BJCP members see good reasons to pay some extra money, I'd find it hard to support such a notion. I for one like the idea of helping the current editor of the BJCP Reporter by generating some topics of interest that have appeared here and working them into a quarterly newsletter. How about a regular section on Organizing competitions? Or organizing study sessions to help train more judges? That series in Brewing Techniques by Scott Bickham on sensory evaluation and the beer flavor wheel was a great idea that could easily have found a place in a regular BJCP newsletter. I'm sure there are plenty more. Finally, if over time such a publication begins to eat into our financial stability in a scenario that Jay presents, then let's cross that bridge when we come to it and start charging regular dues if that's what it will take to stay afloat. Sorry for the lengthy post! Steve Johnson, President Music City Brewers Nashville, Tennessee --Next_Part_SYNC85855F6BB--