Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11503 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:00:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15808 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root at localhost) by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with X.500 id LAA25967; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com (uu6.psi.com [38.145.155.3]) by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with SMTP id KAA25375; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA22881 for spencer at umich.edu; Wed, 1 Apr 98 10:54:54 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA09292 for judge-digest-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:09:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:09:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199804011509.KAA09292 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1560 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Wednesday, 1 April 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1560 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Re: score sheets new score sheets new scoresheets gushers Re: judge-digest V1 #1559 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joel Plutchak" Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 09:54:22 -0600 Subject: Re: score sheets In judge-digest #1559, Gordon Strong wrote: > On another topic, has anyone else used the new score sheets? Are there > any guidelines for them? For those who haven't seen them, appearance was > cut from 6 to 3 points, and 2 points extra were given to aroma, and 1 > extra to flavor (total of 12 and 20, respectively). Personally, I don't > care for the change. A few of us used the new scoresheet locally when evaluating stouts to go to the Stout Bout. I think we all disliked the few points given to appearance. We only had 8 beers to judge, but I still wanted to have a bit more leeway for scoring appearance for several of the beers (and didn't want to resort to fractional points). Appearance is separated into color, clarity, head retention, head color, and head texture. How do you differentiate between beers that differ only in head texture? What about differences in degree of color or clarity? If we stick to full points, there doesn't seem to be enough appearance points to work with. > For example a "problem" beer is now 0-13. Does that mean the old > "give it a 19" guideline is out? Good question. That will take some adjusting by judges and entrants. Overall, though, I like the new look, especially the extra space in which to write comments, and the extra checkboxes at the bottom. > If the score sheet were a software product, I would have > expected "release notes" to help me understand this "upgrade." How about a public beta release?! :-) - -- Joel Plutchak Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots Champaign, Illinois ------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bergsman Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:29:22 -0800 Subject: new score sheets Gordon Strong wrote: > I like the new scoring guidelines, but does it mean re-learning how to > score a beer? No suggestions here, but I was wondering what other > people think. If the score sheet were a software product, I would have > expected "release notes" to help me understand this "upgrade." Any > insights on how best to employ the new sheets? The new "upgrade" does have "release notes." The scoresheet subcommittee created a new coversheet which explains to the entrant how to read and interpret the new scoresheet and also a new guide to judges in how to use the scoresheet. Both of these documents contain a new, much more fleshed out version of the old scoring guide. The new sheet is basically in beta testing mode right now, to continue the analogy, but I would hope that contest organizers would use the acompaning documents. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb ------------------------------ From: "Bryan L. Gros" Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:25:31 -0800 Subject: new scoresheets At 09:32 AM 3/31/98 -0500, you wrote: >On another topic, has anyone else used the new score sheets? Are there >any guidelines for them? .... For example a "problem" beer is >now 0-13. Does that mean the old "give it a 19" guideline is out? > >I like the new scoring guidelines, but does it mean re-learning how to >score a beer? No suggestions here, but I was wondering what other >people think. If the score sheet were a software product, I would have >expected "release notes" to help me understand this "upgrade." Any >insights on how best to employ the new sheets? I agree. If a new scoresheet is released, shouldn't a copy be mailed to judges with an explanation? At least in this forum if nothing else. I wasn't ever clear if a minimum 19 score was (is) an official BJCP thing or not. I know several local experienced judges (one is BJCP) who had not heard of this "rule" and would give beers less than 19 on occasion. - Bryan Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Visit the new Draught Board homebrew website: http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm ------------------------------ From: Ed Westemeier Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:23:03 -0500 Subject: gushers One more quick word about gushers: Once in a great while, it's an isolated case that only affects one bottle. It's happened to me twice. The initial bottle was a gusher that left only a small amount of beer in the bottle -- not enough for three judges to get a mouthful each. Requesting a second bottle produced a perfectly fine beer. This is the best reason I can think of for requiring three bottles per entry, and it certainly was a pleasant surprise both times I experienced it. ------------------------------ From: jyust at juno.com (John B Yust) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:03:59 EST Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1559 Yer Honors, Gordon Strong asked if anyone else had used the new score sheets in digest V1 #1559. I've used them, and those of you who've been reading the digest lately probably remember my ranting about changing scoring habits so I won't go into that again. What I will say is that one of the things I like about the new sheets is that they will probably encourage judges to use more of the 50 points we have at our disposal. With the old sheets most of the scoring was limited to the twenty points between 19 and 39. This may mean some re-learning, but I think it will be worth it. And just like with software, the best way to learn it is to use it. My rating of the new score sheets: Thumbs up. John Yust Knoxville, TN Tennessee Valley Homebrewers Club _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1560 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.