Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:44:54 -0500
Message-Id: <199803241344.IAA01228 at synchro.com>
From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
To: judge-digest at synchro.com
Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1554
Reply-To: judge at synchro.com
Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
Precedence: bulk


judge-digest               Tuesday, 24 March 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1554

 ============================================================================
       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
 ============================================================================

 Moderator:        Chuck Cox          <chuck at synchro.com>
 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
 Publisher:        SynchroSystems     <info at synchro.com>

 Submissions:      judge at synchro.com
 Subscriptions:    judge-request at synchro.com
 Archive:          http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge
 BJCP info:        geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com

 ============================================================================
 contents:

 Out of style beers
 Re: EXam results
 Al K's score sheet
 Re: Fast Return of Scoresheets

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Russell <russell at spdc.ti.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:36:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Out of style beers

Hi all,

For judging beers (presumably respectable ones) which are out of
style, I try to distinguish between beers which are out of style
"by degree" vs. beers out of style "by kind".  The former case
refers to Doppelbocks in the Traditional Bock subcategory, or Dorts
entered as Pilsners, or Stouts entered as Porters.  The latter case
refers to a larger break, such as an Oktoberfest entered as a Pale Ale,
or perhaps in the worst case, a Stout entered as a Pilsner.

When beers are off style by kind, the maximum score I award is 29.
When beers are off style by degree, the maximum score I award is 39.
When I am not darn certain, I avoid "out of style" as a comment.
I don't screen ribbon winners; I let the scores dictate placement
(after a mini-BOS at end to reduce beer order/fatigue effects)

The problem with this approach is where to draw that line.  I have
a working definition, well one that works for me, anyway.  (Some of
you may think a Festbier in Pale Ale is off only by degree, others
might think a Dort in Pilsner is off by kind, to cite my own examples)
The advantage of this approach is it gives me a rationale for assigning
scores consistent with the comments printed at the bottom of scoresheets.

Note that I go thru and let the "chips fall where they lie" as Al K.
does, taking off the appropriate points in each section.  But when
I have to assess drinkability, I use that block to achieve the
bottom line score I believe the beer deserves.

Thoughts?

Food for thought,
Steve Russell
AHA National Judge

  
Stephen W. Russell				office	972-995-3928
Member of Technical Staff			pager	972-597-6967
Memory Technology				fax	972-995-2770
Texas Instruments Incorporated			home	972-308-0176
Silicon Technology Development			email	russell at spdc.ti.com

------------------------------

From: Scott Bickham <srb at t4.lanl.gov>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:51:57 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: EXam results

RANDY ERICKSON wrote:

> I took the exam in early December and learned of my results a little over =
> a month ago from the associate exam director (Thanks, Dave, I still can't =
> believe it!)
> 
> My question is, at what point should I expect to see some sort of written =
> acknowledgment from BJCP of my status, and more importantly, find myself =
> in the potential judging pool for the local area?   I will continue to =
> seek out the judging opportunities that I am aware of, but at some point I =
> would hope that comp. organizers have me on some sort of contact list.

This is probably better suited for private e-mail, but maybe others
have the same question.  After the exams are graded and reviewed by
both the associate and exam co-director, they are released to the
proctor (Dave, in this case) and hard copies are sent to the Program
Administrator (Russ Wigglesworth).  Russ does his best to process these
as they arrive, and I think he generally gets the date entered into
the database and prepares wallet cards and certificates in 2-3
weeks, but it depends on how much time he can devote to the BJCP.
Like the rest of us, that ebbs and flows.  In any case, we try
to get verbal scores to everyone in 10-11 weeks.

Glad you were happy with your score!

Scott Bickham
West Exam Director

------------------------------

From: karnowski at juno.com (Thomas p karnowsk)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:58:52 -0500
Subject: Al K's score sheet

Al K said:
"How many of you would be willing to offer the same comments on the beer
if the brewer was standing there next to you?  I don't think I've written
anything I'm not willing to say to the brewers face.  I know I've had to
write "fecal" and "babydiaper" on some scoresheets, but I think I could
say these things to the brewer as long as I could add, "maybe" and "a
touch of...""

To which Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net> said:

Actually anything that I write on the score sheet I would be happy to
have
the brewer right there.  Face to face, then you can ask a couple of
questions and help find out what the problem was.  In fact I have a
tendency to be harder on the brewer face to face to help him improve his
beer and brewing techniques.  Honesty is much more help then being mealy
mouthed about what you are saying.   Face to face if his beer smelled
like
piss I would tell him so without any problem at all, as would most of the
judges I go judging with even though we wouldn't write in on a score
sheet

To which I say:

I know some guys who actually got a score sheet back that said "fecal" 
on it.  They interpreted this to say  "this judge is trying to find a
funny and
pompous way to say our beer tastes like crap!"  I would NEVER put such a
DEGRADING adjective on a score sheet because I think it defeats one of 
the purposes of homebrew competitions - to provide feedback to
homebrewers and encourage them to brew more and brew better.  The
English language is very rich and there are plenty of ways to be 
critical  without resorting to such harsh terms.  I daresay these brewers

probably didn't remember anything else on the score sheet.  Luckily
they are hard-core and are not going to stop brewing, but I know they
didn't appreciate the terms, even if the flavor of "feces" or "piss"
really
showed up in their beer!  (personally I have absolutely no idea what
these things taste like since I drink beer, water, and occaisionally
Coke, not body waste.) 

I know these particular guys would have had no problem being told their
beer was very badly infected, sulphuric, yeasty, sour, etc - but as soon
as they saw 
"fecal" they basically ignored everything else because the judge came
across as an arrogant, pompous asshole.  Now, you may say "that's their
problem" but I think the purpose of judging is to serve these folks and
have fun doing it.  Part of that duty is communication, and effective
communication is very essential. 

 I don't think anyone can ever justify such a term.

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------------------------------

From: "John W. Rhymes" <jwrhymes at mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:09:45 +0000
Subject: Re: Fast Return of Scoresheets

> From: ao915 at detroit.freenet.org (Stephen P. Klump)
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I just wanted to shine some light on
> the Heart of Dixie Brew-off.
> I sent entries to the competiton, which 
> was held on a saturday, and received my 
> score sheets (and a ribbon), the following friday.
> I also found out that the results were
> posted on their website by sunday evening.
> 
> I would like to raise my half-yard in
> appreciation to the organizer(s) of this 
> competition for excellent turn-around.
>

We had an excellent team working on the competition and were able to 
take care of everything except for the heavy shipping at our wrap-up 
meeting the Monday after the competition.  Email and the web give us 
the ability to communicate results quickly, so I made them a priority 
after the competition.

Of course, this quick communication can also have its down side.  I 
did a poor job of editing my previous posting and came across as 
critical of Doug rather than simply disagreeing with the way he 
raised the issue.   I was still obsessing over the imperfections in 
our competition and, in my paranoia about casting stones, ended up 
backhanding one of my own team.  Ouch!

> If you guys put out a manual on organizing
> competitions, i  would be first to buy it!
> 

We did a good job for a first time event, but we've got plenty of 
opportunity to do things better. 

Back in judge-digest 1511, I inquired about the existence of a 
competition faq, and found none.  I think that there is a definite 
need for an organizer's guide, and since I need to pull together my 
notes for next year's competition anyway, I'm going to put them out 
as a starting point and let the people who _really_ know what they're 
doing critique them.  


John W. Rhymes -- Birmingham, Alabama
jwrhymes at mindspring.com

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End of judge-digest V1 #1554
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