Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18270 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:44:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at twins.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.39]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25078 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root at localhost) by twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.6/2.5) with X.500 id LAA18840; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:44:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com (uu6.psi.com [38.145.155.3]) by twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.6/2.5) with SMTP id LAA18835; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA15671 for spencer at umich.edu; Sun, 15 Mar 98 11:44:23 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA08408 for judge-digest-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:06:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:06:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199803151606.LAA08408 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1549 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: judge-digest Sunday, 15 March 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1549 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Re: judge-digest V1 #1548 St Jakobus Blonder Bock Independent Thought Stainless Brew Kettle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David E Drinkwater-Lunn (David Drinkwater) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:16:30 -0600 Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1548 At 9:12 3/13/98, owner-judge-digest at synchro.com wrote: >------------------------------ > >From: Al Korzonas >Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:05:29 -0600 (CST) >Subject: German law > >Greg writes: >>> This may be viewed as heresy by some, but I always thought they >>> were called style *guidelines* because they weren't set in stone. >>> They guide, they don't dictate. >> >>I don't consider it heresy, but I do think that is an overly >>simplistic view. What of bocks and doppelbocks? I thought >>German law determined what those are precisely because of >>gravity? > >Maybe not. I believe the modern German laws were created to protect >the consumer (unlike Reinheitsgebot). Nonsense. The Reinheitsgebot was indeed written to protect the consumer. It stipulated the price for a measure of beer and that the beer be produced with water, malt and hops. Yeah, the Germans were a wee bit wordier than that, but the sense of the law was to ensure the the German beer consumer would know what he or she was paying for, and that there would be a law on the books to enforce that. The key aspects of the law were about _commerce_ and not the issue of malt, hops, and water that people so furiously cling to nowadays. >Incidentally, St. Jakobus is very light and amazingly refreshing >for a 1.080 all-malt beer (it is all Pilsner malt... hence the "Blonder"). "Blond" naturally being a reference to the color, and not the gravity. D2 - -- David Drinkwater, drin0004 at tc.umn.edu, NetNick=Demodave, Homepage at http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m020/drin0004 Chilling in Minneapolis at the University of Minnesota Happy to hear from you! :-) ------------------------------ From: "Jim Busch" Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:39:00 +0000 Subject: St Jakobus Blonder Bock Al notes that Forschungs Blonder Bock is a tough beer to peg to a style designation, it is quite strong at 20P OG and rather pale. To my mind this is a fine example of Hellerbock, or if you prefer, a Blond Doppelbock. I personally prefer to think of it as a Hellerbock that goes to "11" but thats my opinion. It demonstrates all of the characteristics of a Hellerbock but happens to be of higher OG than most. Vernon Valley (RIP) in NJ used to make an incredible Blond Doppelbock, which is what they marketed it as, that weighed in at 9% ABV. I think the style has merits on its own, but it is quite rare to find examples of this strength in common practice. But homebrewers on the other hand..... Prost! Jim Busch ------------------------------ From: Norman Dickenson Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:29:47 -0800 Subject: Independent Thought In response to: >>"BINGO! It is refreshing to know that there are still rational, >>reasonable folks who brew and judge because it is fun, not to adhere >>to a dogma. Independent thought survives yet another assault ;>)" Bill posted: >What in the world has independent thought have to do with knowingly >entering beers that exceed the competition's guidelines? What you call >independent thought I consider sloppy brewing, carelessness, or >indifference. Do you cheat when you play cards Norm? Perhaps you consider >that independent thought. Why should a beer competition be any different? Doncha just love tabloid journalism? My point is that if Bobby Brewer makes the beer he likes to drink, and his friends like to drink it also because it is really, really good, and he enters it in a competition in order to gain feedback and the beer is right on the money for all attributes of the style entered except for the fact that the beer exceeds the "COMPETITIONS GUIDELINES" gravity range by 4 points, and say the judges note that fact, DOCKING POINTS for having style problems, and the beer is STILL THE BEST ENTRY IN THE CLASS, whatchagonna do? Call him/her a sloppy, careless, indifferent cheater? I don't think so. Perhaps we Americans need to remind those cheating Germans that they aren't allowed to dumb down their Oktoberfest beer. Or is it OK for professional brewers to dabble in style evolution but homebrewers can't? Unless a competition organizer starts calling the style discriptions "requirements" rather than "guidelines" I would allow that the dictionary definition of "guideline" should prevail. I think the classic pioneer brewers of 150 years ago would be having a big laugh at this whole thread. Oh, the blasphemy of lager beers! 20 years ago there weren't such styles as American Pale Ale or American Wheat or American Brown. And if it weren't for independent thought by homebrewers, for the most part, these styles wouldn't exist. Of course, the classic beer styles should be preserved and passed on! But not at the expense of homebrewing not being a fun and interactive socialendeavor. Norman Dickenson ------------------------------ From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:39:39 -0500 Subject: Stainless Brew Kettle BOS Prize in the 3/22/98 NY city spring Reg. HB Competition is a 10 gal Stainless Steel Brew Kettle with bottom drain and SS themometer from PBS, Precision Brewing Systems. Credit will be given for a larger kettle if desired. Why not try to win it? We are also giving away $1,800 in other prizes. Complete information can be found at URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/companno.html Ken Johnsen ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1549 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.