Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08833 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:19:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18957 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:19:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root at localhost) by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with X.500 id LAA27845; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:19:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com (uu6.psi.com [38.145.155.3]) by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with SMTP id LAA27819; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA20309 for spencer at umich.edu; Thu, 5 Mar 98 11:18:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA12450 for judge-digest-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:42:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:42:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199803051542.KAA12450 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1544 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Thursday, 5 March 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1544 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: BIG beers Re: recipes NY City Spring Reg Competition Heart of Dixie Brew-Off, March 14, 1998 competitions/exploding starches CBG St. Pat's Homebrew Competition Call for Entries and Judges Recipe philosophy CBG St. Pat's Homebrew Competition ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Giffin Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:14:26 -0500 Subject: BIG beers BIG beers Top of the morning to yea all, Al K said: "Now, on the subject of "too big" beers winning ribbons in the Nationals, I challenge you Bill to go and pick out these "too big" beers from the National competition. Surely you have heard of palate fatigue. It is a real problem in big competitions. It is physically impossible for a human to detect that the OG of a 1.060 ESB is 5 points too high for the style after 8 or 10 other bitters. Judges who miss 1.080 OG Scottish Heavies are sleeping on the job, but beers that are 5 or 10 points over are impossible to detect even after judging a few entries." I agree that palate fatigue is a problem. Do you as a judge know how many beers you can judge before you begin to have problems properly judging the beers? Why would a brewer indicate that the original gravity of the beer is above the guideline for that style? Should we disqualify beers that the recipes indicate the beer is not to style? Many of the beers that have been too large for the style have exceeded the guidelines by 25% or more. Even counting for palate fatigue a qualified judge should be able to determine that the beer is out of style. I think it is more that it is easier to brew large beers and that the majority of the judging community prefers larger beer that caused the problem rather then palate fatigues. Al raises the problem of palate fatigue, as have many in the past, yet I have yet to see any provide a solution for this problem. Perhaps Al can provide us with a solution for this problem. Whose fault is it Al? The competition's fault? The judges fault? Scott has commented in the past about how good the current crop of master judges are compared to the rest of us poor sods. Perhaps Scott can provide us with a method to correct the problem of palate fatigue. Do master judges have palate fatigue? Just because I couldn't, perhaps, pick out the beers that are too large shouldn't we as judges be able too? Remember that in the National's these beers that are too big for style have been judged not once but twice! And in the second round three judges has been the norm. I just wonder why we can be fooled so many times? Is it the judge's problem or is it the competition's problem? Either way we as judge don't come out of this problem without looking slightly foolish. Again I repeat we need adequate evaluation of judges and competitions. My evaluation of the AHA National competition for example shows the competition to be grossly lacking in the attributes that make a good competition. You would think that after all these years that the AHA would figure out how to run a decent competition. Al's comments about extract demonstrate the problems of judges being preconceived one way or another. I still say good beer is good beer whether it is made with extract or all grain. Bill ------------------------------ From: Michael Rasmussen Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:15:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: recipes I would like to see recipes provided to judges after they are finished rating the beer. The biggest problem I experience in judging is getting any feedback on my judging. By providing the recipes to the judges, while the beer taste is still a fresh memory, we can help judges develop faster. This would, for instance, aid in identifying hop varieties, young vs. old beer, and things like that trace of specialty malt flavor one can't identify. - -- Michael Rasmussen mikeraz at patch.com Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity Better a brewer than a banker be. ------------------------------ From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:02:09 -0500 Subject: NY City Spring Reg Competition Entries are now being accepted for the 7th. NYC Spring Reg Comp. Deadline is 3/19/98 Entries can be shipped directly or dropped off at any of the 16th drop off points in the NY/NJ area The prize list now totals ove $1800.00 We are also seeking judges to help with the anticipated 300 entries. Complete details can be found at URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/ Ken Johnsen ------------------------------ From: "John W. Rhymes" Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:35:10 +0000 Subject: Heart of Dixie Brew-Off, March 14, 1998 The Birmingham Brewmasters will host the Heart of Dixie Brew-Off in Birmingham, Alabama, on March 14, 1998. We want judges and stewards to join us for a great weekend! We are providing "Beds for Brewers" in members' homes and discounted hotel rates, organizing a Friday night pub crawl, and hosting visiting judges at the Birmingham Irish Cultural Society's 18th Annual St. Pat's Celebration on Saturday night. See our competition web site at http://www.bham.net/brew/brew-off.html for details, or contact jwrhymes at mindpring.com. John W. Rhymes -- Birmingham, Alabama jwrhymes at mindspring.com ------------------------------ From: Al Korzonas Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:43:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: competitions/exploding starches Bryan writes: >I feel our competition has five purposes. (in no particular order): >1. Raise money for our club. 2. Promote homebrewing in the >community. 3. Promote our club and attract new members. >4. Award prizes to winning brewers. 4. Provide qualified brewing >feedback to entrants. The "raising money" is pretty unlikely... every club-sized competition that I'm familiar with has been within $50 of the budget, and most were on the "red" side of the budget. You forgot: "5. It's fun to judge beer." *** OudBruin writes: >a final OG of 1060... Knowing that decotions explode the starches into >dextrins, I am still puzzled by the yield which tops out over 40 points >/pound/gallon.. Decoctions will indeed cause starch grains to "explode," but not into dextrins. They will still be starch, but they will have been liberated from the tighly bound protein matrix. This matrix is usually "disassembled" during malting, but in the steely tips it is still bound. That's why decoction mashing is more efficient, but really the biggest difference is in undermodified malts, where a larger portion of the starch is in a steely state. As for the 40 ppg, I suspect measurement error. It doesn't take much... volume measurement is the most likely culprit (who measures runnings in a volumetric flask?), but an accidental extra pound of malt will also really throw off your numbers. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ ------------------------------ From: "Alan D. Hord" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:58:36 -0800 Subject: CBG St. Pat's Homebrew Competition Friends, Brewers, and Aficionados, Please join us in this special Pacific Northwest event: The Cascade Brewers Guild announce the 1998 St. Patrick's Homebrew Competition, Saturday/Sunday, March 21st-22nd at Redhook Ale Brewery, Woodinville, WA. This competition is open to all non-commercial, home produced beers, meads and ciders, and is AHA sanctioned. The Best-of-Show Homebrew will be brewed by Redhook Ale Brewery of Fremont - a suburb of Seattle, Washington. Entries must arrive between March 1st and March 14th. Entries shipped must be sent to: Evergreen Brewing Supply 12121 NE Northup Way, Suite 210 Bellevue, Wa. 98005 Attn: to St. Patricks Cascadia Cup For more information: Rules: Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/default.asp?np=1998cbgcontest.asp Plain Text version of the Competition Rules: http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/98cbgcom.txt Entry Registration: Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/regwiz.asp Judge/Steward Registration: Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/judgewiz.asp Competition Organizer: mailto:Alan at HordsOfFun.Com Competition Judge Coordinator: mailto:Chris at NWMarket.Com Best of luck, Alan - President, Cascade Brewers Guild Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/ ------------------------------ From: "Reed,Randy" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:06:01 -0500 Subject: Call for Entries and Judges South Shore Brewoff Homebrew Competition Dedicated to Quality Feedback The third annual South Shore Brewoff will be held about an hour south of Boston, in Cranston RI, just off Interstate 95. The deadline for entries is March 21st, and the actual event will be March 28th. We expect a significant increase in entries due to an increase in convenient drop off points. Great food and a thank you gift will be given to those who pre-register and work the event. The goal of the competition is to provide amateur brewers with quality objective feedback on their efforts. Our club has a number of national, certified, and recognized BJCP judges among our ranks, but we need assistance from other clubs to get all the judging done. Please consider entering and/or judging our event. All drop off points are stocked with entry forms: Witches Brew - Foxboro, MA Boston Brewin' - Beverly, MA Northeast Brewers Supply - Providence, RI Pawtucket Homebrewing Supply - Pawtucket, RI Hoppy Brewer - Seekonk, MA 02771 Barley Malt & Vine - Newton, MA 02161 Narragansett Homebrew Supply - Wakefield, RI 02879 Brew Horizons - Coventry, RI 02816 The Modern Brewer - Cambridge, MA 02140 The Vineyard - Upton, MA 01568 Interested in judging or stewarding? Contact Stephen Rose at 508- 821-4152 for entry forms. Only pre-registered staff can attend. Any questions about the competition regulation, procedures, awards, etc., should be answered by the entry forms or can be directed to: Glenn Markel 508-226-3249 or (GRMARKEL at aol.com) Randy Reed 781-341-8170 (RREED at Foxboro.com) Hope to see you there! ------------------------------ From: Scott Bickham Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:08:09 -0700 (MST) Subject: Recipe philosophy It's amusing that some competition organizers put so much weight on the recipes they ask brewers to submit. Even if the types and quantities of the ingredients are given accurately, they are just a superficial representation of what went into the beer. For example, writing that 8 lbs. of pale ale malt was used is meaningless without giving the variety and type of crush. The recipe sheets often ask for the varieties and alpha acid content of the hops, but unless you used the hops immediately after they were measured and know the efficiency of their extraction in your idiosyncratic brewing process, this just provides an estimate of the IBU level. Boiling time? Give me a break - my evaporation rate varies between 1 and 2 gallons during a 75 minute boil, giving dramatically different caramelizations. Yeast used? The characteristics of the beer vary dramatically depending on the viability, amount of slurry and oxygenation. This is particularly meaningless for my pLambics, which are fermented with a mixed culture of yeast and bacteria that I have maintained for several years. I have no idea what remains or has been added during racking and bottling, but it makes a decent representation of the style. Water treatment is especially meaningless without a description of the initial characteristics of the local water supply. I'll happily provide all of this information to competition organizers or anyone else, for that matter, but based on the above, I feel it's a waste of time. Just my two cents, Scott Bickham ------------------------------ From: "Chris Williams (DBSD)" Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:55:16 -0800 Subject: CBG St. Pat's Homebrew Competition Fellow brewers and judges: Please join us in this special Pacific Northwest event: The Cascade Brewers Guild announce the 1998 St. Patrick's Homebrew Competition, Saturday/Sunday, March 21st-22nd at Redhook Ale Brewery, Woodinville, WA. This competition is open to all non-commercial, home produced beers, meads and ciders, and is AHA and BJCP sanctioned. One beer, one mead, and one cider will be judged Best-of-Show (for each primary category). The Best-of-Show Homebrew will be brewed by Redhook Ale Brewery of Fremont - a suburb of Seattle, Washington. Best-of-Show Mead and Best-of-Show Cider shall each receive the Cascadia Cup trophy. First, second and third place certificates will be awarded in each category or combined category. First place winners will receive a $50 gift certificate, Second a $30, and Third a $20. Entry fee is $6.00 (US). An entry consists of 3 (three) bottles (two will be used in the first round, the third for determining Best of Show if required) accompanied by duplicate entry forms, one rubber-banded to each bottle. Bottles must be clean 10-16 oz glass, free of labels, raised glass or other identifying markings. Please Note: Mead and Cider only need to submit two bottles. Entries must arrive between March 1st and March 14th. Entries shipped must be sent to: Evergreen Brewing Supply 12121 NE Northup Way, Suite 210 Bellevue, Wa. 98005 Attn: to St. Patricks Cascadia Cup For more information: Rules: Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/default.asp?np=1998cbgcontest.asp Plain Text version of the Competition Rules: http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/98cbgcom.txt Entry Registration: Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/regwiz.asp Judge/Steward Registration: Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/judgewiz.asp Competition Organizer: mailto:Alan at HordsOfFun.Com Competition Judge Coordinator: mailto:Chris at NWMarket.Com Best of luck, Alan - President, Cascade Brewers Guild Http://www.NWMarket.Com/CBG/ ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1544 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.