Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:00:07 -0500
Message-Id: <199802281500.KAA01549 at synchro.com>
From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
To: judge-digest at synchro.com
Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1543
Reply-To: judge at synchro.com
Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
Precedence: bulk


judge-digest             Saturday, 28 February 1998     Volume 01 : Number 1543

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       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
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 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
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 contents:

 recipes
 Recipes
 Re:    judge-digest V1 #1542
 1998 Shamrock Open - call for judges

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From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:55:51 -0800
Subject: recipes

BillG writes:
>Al K said:
>>3. many recipes are fiction... many entrants don't want to give away their
>>recipes (although I feel that even given a recipe, most brewers have enough
>>variation in technique and equipment that results in the beer coming out 
>>different), and
>>
>>4. (MOST IMPORTANTLY) it would bias many judges against extract beers...
>>many judges would score extract beers lower.
>>
>I don't think that that many recipes given are fiction.  I would much
>rather think well of my fellow brewers then believe that they would cheat
>on a competition and it is cheating!  Besides very few recipes would have
>any value to anyone but the brewer.

Well, I've often made up a recipe when entering a beer.  Two reasons:
one is that I don't have the recipe handy when filling out the entry form
(because I forgot or I'm at the drop off point when filling it out).
So I don't completely make up something, but I don't have all the 
details right.  Second, I don't know the purpose of asking for a 
recipe, and it isn't generally stated by the competition.  I figure they
copy my name and address and the recipe goes in the trash anyway.

- -----
I'm all for providing recipe to the judges, but only for the purpose of
providing better feedback.  So ideally, a judge should score the beer
and then use the recipe to help the brewer while being unable to 
change the score.

- -----
BillG also urges organizers to state the purpose of the competition.
I feel our competition has five purposes.  (in no particular order):
1.  Raise money for our club.  2.  Promote homebrewing in the 
community.  3.  Promote our club and attract new members. 
4.  Award prizes to winning brewers.  4.  Provide qualified brewing 
feedback to entrants.

I didn't state the purpose of this competition in the entrant package, 
but I feel our competition last month achieved all of these goals.

But that brings up a point.  Could you have a successful competition
whose sole purpose was to pick the best beers and award prizes?
It would sure be fun for judges, since no score sheets would be
needed.  We could simply recognize the best beers.

Would this kind of competition have a difficult time getting
entries?
  - Bryan

Bryan Gros	gros at bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
Visit the new Draught Board homebrew website:
http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm

------------------------------

From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:02:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Recipes

The issue here is whether to show judges the recipes or not...

Bill writes (quoting me):
>>4. (MOST IMPORTANTLY) it would bias many judges against extract beers...
>>many judges would score extract beers lower.
> 
>Al shouts "(MOST IMPORTANTLY)". Good beer is good beer, and if its made
>with extract great.  I think it is harder to brew well with extract then it
>is with all grain.  I don't think that it is very important at all extract
>or grain beer is beer.

Baloney.  In a perfect world, yes... just this week I heard yet another
story from a brewer who made an extract batch and "fooled" his all-grain-biased
friends (his words).  I've heard stories like this so many times.  Note
that both the "all-grain snobs" (his words) and he himself are biased.  The
fact that he feels he "fooled" them indicates that he feels the beer *should*
have been inferior to all-grain batches.  Let's face it... people (wrongly)
think less of extract recipes and knowing that something is an extract
batch is very likely to impact the score of the beer.

It would be interesting to try an experiment.  Brew two batches with a
similar recipe... *both* extract or all-grain.  Give them to a bunch of judges
and tell them "A" is all-grain and "B" is extract.  Give the same two beers 
to another bunch of judges but tell them "A" is extract and "B" is all-grain.
I'll bet the "extract" batches will get lower scores, overall.

Now, on the subject of "too big" beers winning ribbons in the Nationals,
I challenge you Bill to go and pick out these "too big" beers from the
National competition.  Surely you have heard of palate fatigue.  It is
a real problem in big competitions.  It is physically impossible for a
human to detect that the OG of a 1.060 ESB is 5 points too high for the
style after 8 or 10 other bitters.  Judges who miss 1.080 OG Scottish
Heavies are sleeping on the job, but beers that are 5 or 10 points over
are impossible to detect even after judging a few entries.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/

------------------------------

From: OudBruin at aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:46:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:    judge-digest V1 #1542

Subject: extra-ordinary yeild
From: Oudbruin at aol.com

Ok, you Rocket Scientists, I have one for you...
Last weekend, I brewed a Boh Pils with Ken Hall. We used 23 pounds of grain,
and acidified the sparge h2o. We used a triple decotion.
I extracted 16 gallons  (or slightly more) of gyle which we reduced to15 for
a final OG of 1060... Knowing that decotions explod the starches into
dextrins, I am still puzzled by the yeild which tops out over 40 points
/pound/gallon..
Now some of you folks are gonna say it didn't happen, and some are gonna make
other disparaging remarks.. I am just looking for a reasonable explanation
from the (allegedly) most learned group of amateur brewers in the county..


------------------------------

From: Stephen Murphrey <"Stephen Murphrey" at ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:18:41 -0500
Subject: 1998 Shamrock Open - call for judges

CARBOY (Cary-Apex-Raleigh Brewers of Yore) will sponsor the
1998 Shamrock Open Homebrew Competition on March 14, 1998,
in Raleigh, NC.  We need judges and stewards.  Lunch will 
be provided for all out-of-town judges and stewards.
Detailed information and entry forms are available on our 
club home page: http://www.ipass.net/~carboy/index.html
Please let me know if you're coming.
 	Steve Murphrey
 	(919) 779-4482 (evenings)
 	swmurph at ibm.net

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End of judge-digest V1 #1543
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